Help the Cafe survive! Supporters, ambassadors, champions... what do you think?

[Pete Thomas]

As forums are facing more and more competition from various social media formats I thought it would be good to find ways to help promote the cafe

Anyone who would like to be part of this could be a Cafe "champion" or ambassador - I haven't quite settled on the title yet I thought I'd wait to see what people think. Could just be "friends" of the cafe.

This would be different from the Supporters who contribute by paying for a premium subscription which is certainly a huge help in keeping us afloat and able to pay into various charity funds. Thank you all!

What I'm thinking of is members who actively promote the forum - whether it's on social media, events whatever.

Apart from maybe having badge on your profile I haven't actually formulated a huge plan because I thought I'd wait and see what you all think of the idea, so if anyone is interested discuss in this thread any ideas of how we can get more people. Also feel free to discuss any ideas or critique of the Cafe in general...

 

[Pete Thomas]

Hmmm....

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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7NlFWh7Sz8

 

[Saxlicker]

I wish I had some positive ideas.

Instead I have the following observations.
I think a lot of forum members (of any forum) including myself generally visit without any thought to
a) understand the impact of low, infrequent traffic on a website.
b) feel any association with the health of the website by contributing.
c) Visit for any other reason to visit than the desire floating through their mind which obviously varies from a fleeting curiosity to a full on deep dive about something.

As membership to any given forum progresses and enjoyment, satisfaction, respect and further understanding collide a little harder contributions do get made out of appreciation and in some cases returns of course but despite this, understanding its importance can remain low and low priority.
So it's indeed a tricky thing to even get a reply to a post like this, let alone make people think consciously about promoting.
I would not take a lot of notice of a badge on this forum or seeing something like it on peoples profiles on other forms of social media.

I enjoy the Cafe and I think that is plain to see for all who visit regardless of whether they care about my contributions.
But right there is the best representation I can give coupled with my message count (which isn't everything of course).
OK so that doesn't have visibility to encourage new members to take a look but any googling will bring up the cafe with related meta data right?....... far more powerful than me.
If I search online for things sax related Cafe threads pop up in the search all the time.
The whole world knows its here, just like Facebook groups & SOTW.
I don't TikTok, twitter, snapchat or any of those types of things and no promotion by other users would entice me.
I value consistent, stable platforms that I understand. Even Facebook goes off in tangents that dilute quality and continuity.

Putting all the above in a nutshell, most people will come and go when they want, take what they can while the resource is there and move on when its not.

Forums don't get the attention and quality from members that they once did. That doesn't mean other resources are now better. No no web based forums are the best for me.
I think it's a reflection on the amount of choice and market size vs what hasn't already been answered/discussed a million times over that is responsible for declining engagement.
I see that this forum doesn't get as many members online as it it used to.
Equally I signed up for a vehicle forum only this morning for a new (to me) car and the most recent posts are days if not weeks and months old and threads tend to have no more than 4 or 5 replies maximum.

Records, CD's, MP3's and streaming present a similar thing I guess. I n longer have a record player but still have vinyl.
I use a CD player a few times a year. I buy digital copies like MP3's and only have free streaming accounts.
And everyone will be different in how often they use these things.

 

[saxyjt]

I believe some of us here truly appreciate this forum and the community that grew around it.

I did my best to promote the Café among my fellow sax friends but as they are french, it's not a natural thing for them to visit an English speaking forum. I also tried promoting the Café when I created a blog some years ago when I had some time to kill.

But today, I honestly can't see how I could do anything to help.

The only thing that comes to mind is reflecting on what drove me to be an active member of a forum some years ago and it was an event. It was a sailing forum and the America's cup was about to start in San Diego then and the forum remained very active for the whole duration of the event. A few months, maybe a year.

But what kind of events in the saxophone world could generate traffic for more than a few days? Gigs notices perhaps if properly organized!

Something like bandsintown but focused on local gigs, maybe...

Teacher's locator could be a useful tool for visitors, but that's not gonna keep them online, will it?

Just some thoughts...

 

[Hoosierken]

I was wondering, does The Cafe have a Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok presence? FB would be great for sharing short videos of the member playing something, sax or music related jokes, pics of their new sax or something interesting that they have seen. I am not so sure how YouTube would work but making sure that tutorial have at least a link pointing back here in the descriptions.

 

[JulesMartin]

Hm..tough topic. I'm six months in on my journey with the sax. Shoot me down in flames but it is my feeling that the majority of the members here are moving into shall we say the autumn of their years and have taken up, like myself, the sax as an interest or hobby or are reacquainting after years of not playing.

Our reasons are manyfold but I suspect that thoughts of joining a band or taking the sax into a public arena of any kind is not on the agenda for many of us and so spreading the word of our supporting forum is not easily done no matter how we feel about the forum, we have nobody to spread the word to.

I have joined several forums over the years for other interests, have taken what I need from them and either moved on or kept a weather eye out by dipping in from time to time. As the sax is uppermost in my interests I visit here on a daily basis and really do enjoy the company, banter and invaluable good advice. unfortunately like many others here, I suspect, there is little we can do to promote the good word. It is sad that we can't repay the benefits I guess other than our direct financial support. I can't imagine the complexity or time consuming effort running this forum must take but it is appreciated and would for me be sadly missed so if anybody can come up with good suggestions it would be most welcome.

 

[Hoosierken]

Hm..tough topic. I'm six months in on my journey with the sax. Shoot me down in flames but it is my feeling that the majority of the members here are moving into shall we say the autumn of their years and have taken up, like myself, the sax as an interest or hobby or are reacquainting after years of not playing.

Our reasons are manyfold but I suspect that thoughts of joining a band or taking the sax into a public arena of any kind is not on the agenda for many of us and so spreading the word of our supporting forum is not easily done no matter how we feel about the forum, we have nobody to spread the word to.

I have joined several forums over the years for other interests, have taken what I need from them and either moved on or kept a weather eye out by dipping in from time to time. As the sax is uppermost in my interests I visit here on a daily basis and really do enjoy the company, banter and invaluable good advice. unfortunately like many others here, I suspect, there is little we can do to promote the good word. It is sad that we can't repay the benefits I guess other than our direct financial support. I can't imagine the complexity or time consuming effort running this forum must take but it is appreciated and would for me be sadly missed so if anybody can come up with good suggestions it would be most welcome.

According to a recent unscientific survey here, you are correct. It found over 50% members that responded were born in the 1950s and 60s. I imagine that if you checked other forums for say vintage tractors, automobiles, hot rods, trains, etc. and you will find about the same. I don't think that they asked but my guess is that users are also overwhelmingly male.
I think this phenomenon is probably related to where males are at this point in their life. The kids are out of college and off on their own. The activities that attracted them when they were younger, perhaps because of their kids are not so much fun anymore. Perhaps their bodies rebel against weekend warrior activities and they probably have more disposable income than at any previous time in their life.
For the Cafe to prosper it will have to not only reach these men but find a way to attract younger males as well as grow female user numbers. They won't come if they don't know that it is here. There are also some things that if they do come that they probably won't want to hear. I would recommend refraining telling a new user regardless how good of advice that it might be, 1) that they should find a local teacher, 2) that they should take their instrument to a shop, 3) that their instrument is junk. They might eventually figure that out on their own and maybe they will have fun learning and maintaining their instrument on their own.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I wish I had some positive ideas.

Ah abut you are actually one of our best (and longest serving) contributors anyway

I would not take a lot of notice of a badge on this forum

No, I just mentioned that because some do like badgers.

I can give coupled with my message count

It is impressive count but more important is thread starting - it hasn't gone unnoticed.

I see that this forum doesn't get as many members online as it it used to.

It's up and down I think.

I did my best to promote the Café among my fellow sax friends but as they are french, it's not a natural thing for them to visit an English speaking forum. I also tried promoting the Café when I created a blog some years ago when I had some time to kill.

Many thanks! Yes the language thing is important of course. We are lucky and privileged that English is so widely spoken, I've looked into multi.ligial versions but is so complicated.

Teacher's locator could be a useful tool for visitors,

yes we do haver the teachers directory but is not used much. Sadly.

I was wondering, does The Cafe have a Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok presence?

Shoot me down in flames but it is my feeling that the majority of the members here are moving into shall we say the autumn of their years and have taken up, like myself, the sax as an interest or hobby or are reacquainting after years of not playing.

That's correct and I wish we could find a way to reach a wider and more diverse audience.

For the Cafe to prosper it will have to not only reach these men but find a way to attract younger males as well as grow female user numbers. They won't come if they don't know that it is here.

Agreed totally.

I was wondering, does The Cafe have a Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok presence? FB would be great for sharing short videos of the member playing something, sax or music related jokes,

Youtube is Tamingthesaxophone.

Social media is a bit of a double edged sword. We have a page (I think) but use of that would dilute what we have here so possinbly not going top work. However I know so little about SM (social media that is) I am possibly a bit biased against it.

 

[Digger2054]

We have a page (I think) but use of that would dilute what we have here so possinbly not going top work.

Potentially not.

For example there is a wealth of knowledge on here, so a post "How do you stop sticking pads?", "Top tips to improve your sound", "Fancy a go at this month's SOTM?" with a link to a relevant post here.

(i'm no social media master)

That said you'll get people just commenting on the post.

I'm mid 30's, and used forums for years, but I suspect those younger than I do resort to Social Media, the response is more immediate, notifications in apps etc... things that irritate me personally. I tend to find that on social media everyone airs an opinion, and it's hard to cut through the BS, where as here the assistance seems much more reliable and accurate.

 

[saxyjt]

I'm mid 30's, and used forums for years, but I suspect those younger than I do resort to Social Media, the response is more immediate, notifications in apps etc... things that irritate me personally. I tend to find that on social media everyone airs an opinion, and it's hard to cut through the BS, where as here the assistance seems much more reliable and accurate.

Not all that is old is crap and not all of what is new is great.

Since two of my 'older' colleagues left the company on early retirement (lucky bastards) I'm now the oldest, so I must keep a balance between adopting new trends or technologies, relying on good old common sense and experience.

Social media and AI tend to distort reality and privilege recent over history. This is most obvious in search results.

Here at least, some real humans provide answers based on their own experience. Not some statistically computed response that may be completely wrong or just based on erroneous popular ideas... You still have to make up your own mind about the often numerous answers and it's a good thing.

 

[Hoosierken]

Digger2054 and Saxyjt made me wonder about an admin contacting Open AI, Microsoft, or Google about how the forum could work with their LLMs and how this could drive traffic to the Cafe.
Many humans are not just going to want to sit back while some oracle answers their questions from on high. AI is a tool and while it can provide answers it cannot and probably never will be able to interact with humans like other humans can. In my estimation, AI probably can lead the horse to water and some horses will drink. Meaning that AI can lead people to the Cafe and some will stay and participate.
Perhaps if you listen to this New York Times podcast about Wikipedia and AI, Wikipedia's Moment of Truth. They are already faced with an existential question of how to survive with the changes that are already sweeping across the Internet. This is what I am trying to suggest with this post.

 

[JulesMartin]

I tend to find that on social media everyone airs an opinion, and it's hard to cut through the BS, where as here the assistance seems much more reliable and accurate.

I think you've hit the nail in a nutshell there on SM you have keyboard warriors who have nothing better to do than to reply and offer an opinion on anything and everything. The difference in a forum is that you are a much smaller group, genuinely (especially here) interested in helping not just scattering an opinion and because you are known within the group people either respect or ignore or make informed decisions based on their knowledge of the person posting. Except in my case of course, I'm just a humble numpty whose only just learnt which end to blow in

 

[Targa]

No, I just mentioned that because some do like badgers.

Badgers?
We don't need no stinkin' badgers.

 

[Jimmymack]

I like badgers but they don’t solve the problem. Badgers don’t sign up and post. I don’t have a solution to this and don’t play, and really don’t care for what social media is doing to the world. One thing it’s doing is killing forums like this, they might be full of useful, even full of valuable information but they aren’t scandalous enough and aren’t making money for somebody.

I will happily make contributions but I think that maybe isn’t enough. Pete, please spell out the problem as you see it. If allowing adverts is a solution then maybe that’s what you have to do, at least we can put blockers on them.

 

[wakyct]

Pete, please spell out the problem as you see it.

I think you put the tail on the badger. Is it that activity as measured by posts is declining, or there's not enough money flowing to server costs and/or charity work, or...? Once the issue is clearly defined you can address it.

 

[PigSquealer]

I think you put the tail on the badger. Is it that activity as measured by posts is declining, or there's not enough money flowing to server costs and/or charity work, or...? Once the issue is clearly defined you can address it.

Several things come to mind here.
Consult a specialist.
Identify what social media is competing. Why?
Beautiful website but dated graphics / format to younger crowd.
AI was a big turn off to me.
Vetting members with badges or yahoos is definitely not an answer. That’s nothing more than a simple thank you for the contribution. It doesn’t change anything.
Young people are enjoying old music catalogs more than modern music. Why ? It’s crafted from human spirt not electronics. Figure out how to capitalize on that.
I need to think on this title subject issue more.

 

[Phil]

Perhaps just seek out free advertisment from vendors who have websites. A lot of people probably dont know the cafe exists.

Id put a little little Spot on on my page as Friends of the Cafe (though Id rather be an ambasador lol) I dont need money to do that. Im not sure I or other vendors would want to make it a link. Keeping people on your page is rather important...but a little ad...why not?

I bet a lot of smaller guys would do that. Big producers...probably not. Also you might get some musicians to do that as well. You certainly know a few. Visibilty is a good thing. It might not make a massive difference but every little bit counts.

Additionally, while I am not much on social media I do have a instagram account. Id have no issue with putting up a little note one or two times a year advertising this forum. If you got your player friends and members here to do it also you could potentially grow the forum without having to create a social media page yourself that would take time and have its own pitfalls.

The Cafe would be on thousands of feeds. Free advertising is good!

 

[Trigger]

I’m sure most members are on Facebook (although I’m not ) can’t they include a link on their profile to cafesaxophone especially if they use the saxophone sub forums on market place ( fortunately my partner has Facebook so I do use them ) it’s just an idea to generate interest in this site more people see it more people use it

Just an idea

 

[mizmar]

Is finding the site (taming and the forums) really that hard? Seems to me there's a pretty regular drip-drip of new users. Retaining user seems harder.

Seems to me: the service offered is engaged discussion. There is a trend away from that in the big platforms; but that is an opportunity as well. But keeping up the chatter / discussion can be quite hard without more engaded useres.
If I was a bit of an industry insider, I'd look to see if there wasn't a way to bring more people like; small shop owners, teachers, techs, mp folk etc. in. Making the forum common meeting place. Then instead of just a - valueless - badge; they could have a "come to the Café to chat about XX" badge and maybe their own tag on the forum?

 

[Phil]

Its not hard to find if you look for it. The web isba big place. If you dont look for it you probably wont stumble over it.

Even with a trickle of new members its important to know how many people actually post who wonder in.

Continued growth is important to overcome attrition.

If you aren’t growing you are shrinking.