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Saxophones Heads Up - King Super 20 Baritone (Cleveland)...

Michael Somerset

New Member
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14
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United Kingdom
It's hard to be 100% I agree. I was interested in the horn myself but with Covid was unable to view. The consensus pretty unanimous over on the KIng S20 owners FB page after considerable debate was " Relac done well" The seller tells me he plays an SBA bari and he had a low A VI for sale too at one time. Maybe the guy who traded it to him knows the history. The seller sounds a bit of a character from my exchanges I guess a trip to Brixton is the only way if you want to risk it. Maybe a gem awaits. The case is somewhat KIng shaped I agree but doesn't look like any genuine King case I've seen which are always high quality. Hard to get an aftermarket case these days for the huge bell but not impossible . My original is super well built. 1958. I would have thought it would have the original case but who knows what happened to that since the early 60's . It's a mystery.
 

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Michael Somerset

New Member
Messages
14
Locality
United Kingdom
Whoa I just looked at my last reply from the seller. I don't think I'll be heading over in a hurry.
 

thomsax

Well-Known Member
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3,705
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Sweden
A S 20 bari in good condition is a fine instrument. I wonder why King (Musical instrument) did halt in the production? The last King baris were the Zephyr model with split bell keys. A sax from the 30's! Good saxes but compared to a King S 20 bari ........ .

If I was going to buy a bari for £ 3000.00 I would travel and make an inspektion of the sax and play it for serveral hours.

Re-laquer? If it's correct done I can't see any problem with that. I have several saxes thart are re-laquers. You can get good and shinny saxes for less money.
 

Michael Somerset

New Member
Messages
14
Locality
United Kingdom
The case is a Berklee of London. I thought I recognised it. I had my VI in one in the 80's . So not a case contemporary to the early 60's horn.
 

rhysonsax

Well-Known Member
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4,309
Locality
Surrey, UK
The case is a Berklee of London. I thought I recognised it. I had my VI in one in the 80's . So not a case contemporary to the early 60's horn.
Looks like it. I had a black Berkeley case with my "The Martin" baritone and hated it - the pop rivets for the catches and hinges just pulled out of the fibreglass and the horn needed foam padding to stop it rattling around in the case.

When I bought my Selmer baritone it came in a red Berkeley case which looked fine but suffered from all the same issues.

I wonder whether those cases are still made ?

Rhys
 

Michael Somerset

New Member
Messages
14
Locality
United Kingdom
Hi Rhys They weren't great were they. I'm not certain mine was a Berkeley. I actually ordered it from a music mag. There were a million colours . They actually sent me 2 and they didn't want the extra one back. I've got my VI in a Bam which are great cases. The King is in it's original case which is excellent too. They knew how to make stuff then. I'm certain that King is a relac. Every KIng player I've asked is adamant including the KIng bari players. The seller's not having it though to put it mildly. I have a mate looking for an old Buescher 400 or Martin bari if you know of any.
 

JayeNM

Formerly JayePDX
Messages
1,651
Locality
New Mexico, US
The consensus pretty unanimous over on the KIng S20 owners FB page after considerable debate was " Relac done well" I guess a trip to Brixton is the only way if you want to risk it.
WDR.... a bunch of people on FB viewing photographs can not ascertain whether a horn is a 'good relacq' vs. original in good shape.
So their 'votes', while not to be dismissed...provide far less an answer than you seem to characterize they provide, is all.

People just cannot do that from pics.

So again, I state....only way to tell is to go see it.

Short of anyone having seen it in person....claiming it to be a relacq is ersatz...and should be taken with a large grain of salt.

I am not pushing this on anyone, nor trying to defend anyone - but as a seller....it irks me when a thread starts chatting up "oooh - relacq !" when in fact, if the photos are inconclusive (and they are), and the seller claims it appears original....the reality is this holds as much weight as a bunch of facebook people judging it isn't, based on photos.

Not arguing, just saying...having refurbed close to 2000 vintage saxes at this point.....a fair amount of times it can be that hard to discern. This is one of those instances.

Is it fair to raise that given how pristine it looks, it might be ? Yes.

But again, it isn't fair to intimate it therefore is....or likely is....without a few experienced folks seeing it and reporting back.
 

rhysonsax

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,309
Locality
Surrey, UK
Hi Rhys They weren't great were they. I'm not certain mine was a Berkeley. I actually ordered it from a music mag. There were a million colours . They actually sent me 2 and they didn't want the extra one back. I've got my VI in a Bam which are great cases. The King is in it's original case which is excellent too. They knew how to make stuff then. I'm certain that King is a relac. Every KIng player I've asked is adamant including the KIng bari players. The seller's not having it though to put it mildly. I have a mate looking for an old Buescher 400 or Martin bari if you know of any.
I've got a BAM bari case too and it's excellent. I found this old thread on the forum about Berkeley cases Accessories - Berkeley cases on ebay and that reminded me that the brand was related to the old Don Mackrill shop in outer London. I had some interesting visits there but don't think I ever made any big purchases from them.

I don't have any leads to old Buescher or Martin baritones - sorry.

Rhys
 
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DavidUK

DavidUK

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,653
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Near Lutterworth, Leics.
Berkeley cases should be shot at dawn.
Horrible things I wouldn't even use to follow a horse with a shovel.
 
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