Playing Having trouble finding Altissimo G

Z

ZeroZero

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So, I am a returning player. I can do about an hour before my embrouchure feels like a soggy pillow - so things are still building. I used to play jazz. rock. soul... never bothered with Altissimo.

My sax is not in great condition and needs a service (booked). So, my embrouchiure is still building, though I can run any scale. I play a King Super 20 Eastlake.

I can reach any conventional note and an F# (which has no tonehole on the King) .

I am struggling to find G.

My Altissimo fingering chart Shows F# as simply a high F fingering with the lowest side Bb down. I am finding this easy. But the next Chromatic - G, is much harder. The fingering I have in my chart is The same as the F#, except the right hand F is raised. This fingering seems "wrong" like trying to play a Eb whislt holding down the F fingering - if you know what I mean.

I am still practicing my long tones. I can sub all the low notes most of the time, but as yet I cant go into a low B or Bb without descending toward it. I can move most lower octave notes up an octave with only the reed.

My Questions:

Should I be trying G next? Are some Altissimos easier to reach that others?

Are there alternative fingerings for thec altissimo G on my King Super 20 that I should try?

Thank you

Z
 
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That's the fingering I use (on tenor)... But, seems to me, once you "have it" you can play around with the fingers and "voicing" to get the best result.

What can be helpful it to hear the target tone eg a piano or tone generating app (I use TE Tuner).
 
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ZeroZero said:
So, I am a returning player. I can do about an hour before my embrouchure feels like a soggy pillow - so things are still building. I used to play jazz. rock. soul... never bothered with Altissimo.

My sax is not in great condition and needs a service (booked). So, my embrouchiure is still building, though I can run any scale. I play a King Super 20 Eastlake.

I can reach any conventional note and an F# (which has no tonehole on the King) .

I am struggling to find G.

My Altissimo fingering chart Shows F# as simply a high F fingering with the lowest side Bb down. I am finding this easy. But the next Chromatic - G, is much harder. The fingering I have in my chart is The same as the F#, except the right hand F is raised. This fingering seems "wrong" like trying to play a Eb whislt holding down the F fingering - if you know what I mean.

I am still practicing my long tones. I can sub all the low notes most of the time, but as yet I cant go into a low B or Bb without descending toward it. I can move most lower octave notes up an octave with only the reed.

My Questions:

Should I be trying G next? Are some Altissimos easier to reach that others?

Are there alternative fingerings for thec altissimo G on my King Super 20 that I should try?

Thank you

Z
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That fingering strikes me as a tenor fingering.

For alto, try LH 1,3 RH 1,3 and side Bb (I think, without a sax in my hands)
 
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G and G# are the more difficult ones to place without either the undertone or hitting the next harmonic up.
Can you get an A? It’s a far greater target.

Alto: LH 2,3 RH 1,2,3

The right hand might not be necessary, but it could offer more stability. On (my) tenor I don’t use the RH, but bump the tuning with side C.

Variations can be many, depending upon the mouthpiece and horn, and of course the player.

Jack Brymer once said that to be a clarinetist, was to be an inventor of fingerings. He was referring to “resonance fingerings “ in this instance, but the idea suffices for anything that we have a problem with, whether dexterity-wise, sonority or intonation, or plain hitting a note in the first place.
 
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For G on tenor, I use the front F key and side Bb. F# is front F + LH 2nd finger + RH 1st finger + side Bb

For G on alto, 1 + 3 LH, 1 + 3 RH and side Bb. F# is the same as tenor. Some altos and some mouthpieces I can use the tenor fingering for G which is convenient, but it's not as stable.

Not that G is really stable on tenor, mind you... Regardless of fingering, altissimo G is a difficult note. Equipment makes a huge difference. My original neck for my Mark VI tenor has great difficulty with these notes, but the Boston Sax Shop neck makes it almost easy.

G# is difficult too. On both alto and tenor, 1 + 3 LH, 1 + 3 RH, plus side C works OK. Sometimes add the Eb key. On tenor, I can also use front F key + side C + RH 1 + 2. For fast passages, like going between G and G# (Ab), I can use front F and side C alone, but that is quite sharp and unsuitable for sustained notes.

Note that the above work for me on my horns. I agree that experimentation is important, not all horns are the same and mouthpiece + embouchure also make a difference in what fingerings will work. Especially in the F#-G-G# area. Once you get up to A and above, fingerings are easier and notes speak better.
 
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Sorry folks should have said tenor.

Reading absorbing...

King Super 20 tenor Eastlake 1970 ish, Otto link New Yorker metal 8* (which i used before 20 years ago). Reeds Vandoren green 2.5

I am considering going up to a 3 but I figured I would wait until my embrouchure improved.

Thank you all!

Z
 
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I don't know what "right hand F is raised" means in the OP.

The fingerings aren't the real issue. It's the voicing that allows you to find that slot where the G will emit. If we work it up from below, the front E is an overblown G that sounds a full step higher due to the large size of the F tone hole used as a vent. The front F is an overblown A that sounds a half step higher due to ditto ditto. The F# is an overblown Bb that sounds a half step higher due to ditto ditto.

It would occur, then, to the observant, that a high G would probably be an overblown B or C.

The way to develop the voicing is to do what Mr. Rascher said. Start with lower fingerings, get that octave-and-a-fifth note going, then work it upward. The most important thing to understand about altissimo notes is that unlike the first two and a half octaves, you can't just press the keys and blow and it'll come out. Voicing is the critical component to getting the notes.

So, for example, I just tried this: Start with A. Then just flick the F key, to get that high F. You should be able to HOLD it indefinitely as an F with just the A fingering, though you might have to use the F key flick to get it to sound initially.

Now while you're holding that pure overblown A/F, put down the side Bb (should give you an F#). NOW, while holding that purely overblown high F# with a pure Bb fingering, lift LH2 - a G should pop out, overblown from the B fingering you've got. It'll probably drop out quickly, and you probably won't be able to start it, and it'll probably be out of tune, but there it is. Now all you have to do is practice assiduously so you can reproduce that particular combination of embouchure and voicing on demand.

You'll find that certain fingerings help the note pop out, or assist in getting the exact right tuning. So for example a lot of people on a lot of horns find the high F# (front F 1 2 and side Bb) works better by adding some fingers on the RH; I find that it works better for me with added 1 2 on the RH as well as the front F 1 2 on the LH and side Bb. Once you've got a solid version of the high F# with the Front F-based fingering plus side Bb plus whatever else you might need, hold the airstream, voicing and embouchure, and just lift that middle finger on the LH. If you've got any RH fingers down for the F#, lift them too for the G. Work with various feels of voicing and that transition should be fairly simple. Also, don't bite, and don't blow real hard. It's a lot easier to get these sensitive altissimo notes by playing kind of mezzopiano.
 
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wakyct said:
That does make me wonder, why are altissimo fingerings different if regular fingerings are the same?
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The answer is well known

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I watched a video this morning of Grace Kelly (the young saxophonist, not the late actress/princess), and noticed she used, for altissimo B, the same fingering as low B. I do not know if any vent keys or the octave key were pressed.

This just emphasizes the fact that every instrument and every player is different. We each find our own ways to make the altissimo notes speak. There are some “standard” fingerings, but some horns and some players may have better alternatives. Tone hole size and placement strongly influence these choices.
 
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