Front F is effing impossible!!

[DavidUK]

:shocked:

Mods... sorry, switch to "Playing" section please.

Having watched my tutor struggle with front F on my Buescher 400 I found what looked like the culprit, a missing piece of cork on the "riser" bar, and fixed it. OK, so let's give it a try... squeeeeeaaaaaak!!!!
Let's try the F palm key... yes, that works.

Hmmmm....... OK let's try the Buffet front F to make sure it's a Buescher issue. Squeeeeeeeeeaaaak!!!
Let's try the F palm key... yes, that works.

OK, what about the BW Tenor..... same again.

Carmichael Tenor? Same again.

OK, ok, so it's ME!! Inexperience no doubt, and fingering I've not been taught yet.

BUT, what's the point of having a front F when it must be a tricky one even for the most experienced player?

It must be for certain situations where the palm key isn't as convenient when moving from other notes, but is "front F" a note to shy away from or will I successfully hit it in, say, my 23rd year of playing?

 

[ProfJames]

Forget that!!!! What have you bought?

 

[DavidUK]

Forget that!!!! What have you bought?

Believe it or not, nothing since last week. The Grassi 2000 Pro Tenor arrives tomorrow.

;}

 

[Saxdiva]

Hiya, what keys are you using other than the high f?

if you don't have one, there is a good fingering chart at sax tutor.co.uk and you can use either the RHS keys/G key in combination with the octave key/top F to get high F.

I don't know what you mean about palm key F They only go as high as Eb unless you use the RHS keys

anyway try the fingering chart - much easier than trying to explain it 🙂

 

[DavidUK]

Hiya, what keys are you using other than the high f?

if you don't have one, there is a good fingering chart at sax tutor.co.uk and you can use either the RHS keys/G key in combination with the octave key to get high F.

I don't know what you mean about palm key F They only go as high as E?

anyway try the fingering chart - much easier than trying to explain it 🙂

Palm key F on Alto, as here: http://www.wfg.woodwind.org/sax/sax_fing.html

 

[Saxdiva]

Okay, that tells you the names of the keys, but not what you need to press with what. For the palm keys to sound F, you need to use RHS E (the top one) with the palm keys).

 

[Saxdiva]

Sorry hit send too quickly...

The chart I mentioned ( there are loads but I think this one is well laid out), shws you what other keys you need to use too if you use top F. On its own it just squeaks.

 

[Chilli]

If I'm not mistaken, front F key alone (with octave key) can get you a high (altissimo) G. But I only get a squeak as well.
It's not really made to play a high F.

 

[DavidUK]

Sorry hit send too quickly...

The chart I mentioned ( there are loads but I think this one is well laid out), shws you what other keys you need to use too if you use top F. On its own it just squeaks.

Aha!.... I'd only tried high D before (as in Baker St. and Careless Whisper - yes, we all try those ones to start with!) which needs just the octave key. So high F is all three palm keys, the RHS E, and octave key, per the saxtutor chart, yes?
Not going to spend too much time on this, just interested in how/why the front F works and why it was added. For what scenario? My tutor will tell me when we finally get there.... eventually!
Thanks for the help.

 

[DavidUK]

If I'm not mistaken, front F key alone (with octave key) can get you a high (altissimo) G. But I only get a squeak as well.
It's not really made to play a high F.

Why a G when it's an F key?

 

[Saxdiva]

Yes my tutor uses it for altissimo G, I believe, but I am still working on overtones so my altissimo is non-existent. I do practice high F with different fingerings as I'm just discovering that using alternatives where available can make things much smoother.

 

[DavidUK]

Sorry hit send too quickly...

The chart I mentioned ( there are loads but I think this one is well laid out), shws you what other keys you need to use too if you use top F. On its own it just squeaks.

Oh I see.... you live and learn!
So front F needs the A key and octave key, yes?
High G using the front F needs the RHS Bb key too?
Am I getting there?

 

[Chilli]

I suppose it's called an "F" key because it does open the high F key (usually at a different height, though). It's mostly (if not exclusively) used for altissimo fingerings.

High G doesn't need RHS Bb key in theory, but it is sometimes needed in order to get the G in tune, depending on the sax.

 

[Saxdiva]

Why a G when it's an F key?

When the sax was invented it wasn't intended to play the altissimo register. Over time, players found that with adjusting embouchure and using certain fingerings, they could extend the range. So it's an F key when played in combination with the correct keys (just like the A key won't sound an A unless you also depress the B key - it sounds a C). It just so happens that you can sound altissimo G by using the F key alone.

Does that make any sense? It sounds better in my head.......

 

[Fraser Jarvis]

:shocked:



BUT, what's the point of having a front F when it must be a tricky one even for the most experienced player?

I couldn't live without my front F key, play high E with it to!....easiest way to tackle it is to play and hold a high C then alternate between the B & front F key with your first finger, you'll soon get it and never go back to the palm F or E........or maybe you'll start arguing and tell me I'm wrong?

 

[Saxdiva]

Oh I see.... you live and learn!
So front F needs the A key and octave key, yes?
?

I use A key with front F and octave or
three palm keys, RHS E (the top one) and the octave key.

 

[Fraser Jarvis]

A key? which one's that then innit??

 

[Saxdiva]

I couldn't live without my front F key, play high E with it to!....easiest way to tackle it is to play and hold a high C then alternate between the B & front F key with your first finger, you'll soon get it and never go back to the palm F or E........or maybe you'll start arguing and tell me I'm wrong?

I'm off to try that! I feel sorry for everyone within 500 yards.....

 

[Chilli]

you'll soon get it and never go back to the palm F or E........or maybe you'll start arguing and tell me I'm wrong?

I actually use palm F and B key to get my high F#... but that's only because I'm getting prepared for when I'll buy a Tranny 🙂

 

[Fraser Jarvis]

I'm getting prepared for when I'll buy a Tranny 🙂

Err, well each to their own....is this the right forum for that sort of thing?