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Fingering technique on Yani LH Pinky table (Elite models)

CliveMA

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I am used to the Yamaha LH Pinky table that has two rollers between B and C#. The Yany Elite has a roller on the B side and an elongated tilter on the C# side.

On the Yani I'm finding slurring from B to C# much more difficult. I keep getting a mixed B/C# miskeyed noise as any pressure on the tilter seems to engage both keys instead of only C#. At the moment I tend to lift my finger to avoid the issue but that defeats the purpose of what is supposed to be an improvement.

What am I doing wrong or need to practice? Has anyone else made this transition that can offer salient advice?
 

CliveMA

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Yani Elite with 1 roller on B side and elongated tilter on C# side.
20210308_131528.jpg
 

7201

 
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I don’t know if the tilter mechanism is supposed to seesaw but it looks like the B key is high. I bet the rollers on your Yam actually work, unlike my Mk6. I’ve tended to drag or push my (straight) finger across these keys with hand movement. Not ideal with the economy of movement idea, but it has been necessary for me, plus having spent years on clarinet first and not having this type of key solution.
 

CliveMA

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I don’t know if the tilter mechanism is supposed to seesaw but it looks like the B key is high.
C# key is engaged/lowered in both photos because key leaves are present.
I bet the rollers on your Yam actually work, unlike my Mk6. I’ve tended to drag or push my (straight) finger across these keys with hand movement. Not ideal with the economy of movement idea, but it has been necessary for me, plus having spent years on clarinet first and not having this type of key solution.
My rollers work well. On the Yani, moving my hand instead of only my pinky seems the only way to use the tilt which I think is a step backwards because as you say it means less economy of movement.
 

Stephen Howard

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Have a look at the angle of your little finger as it draws across the B to the C#.
As nifty as the tilting roller between the two keys is, it does rather require your finger to be a little straighter...or at least a little more down toward the Bb.
If your finger is at an angle (base tilted up towards the G#) you'll see that as you draw it back it runs over the arm that links the roller between the two keys. This 'blurs' the opening of the B and that of the C# - so you don't get that distinct transition that you get on the Yamaha.
Not a lot you can do about that, apart from training your finger to come at it from a slightly different angle - though raising the B touchpiece can sometimes improve matters.
 

CliveMA

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If your finger is at an angle (base tilted up towards the G#) you'll see that as you draw it back it runs over the arm that links the roller between the two keys. This 'blurs' the opening of the B and that of the C# - so you don't get that distinct transition that you get on the Yamaha.
Maybe this is what is happening for me - I'll ask my wife to check when I practice tomorrow.
 

CliveMA

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Do you believe the Yani Elite approach is better than the Yamaha approach or is it just different?

My impression is still that the Yani approach is biomechanically inefficient.
 

Stephen Howard

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Do you believe the Yani Elite approach is better than the Yamaha approach or is it just different?

My impression is still that the Yani approach is biomechanically inefficient.
Given that I don't mind either arrangement and have no trouble at all, I'd say it's just a different approach.
Where it's supposed to really pay off is in moving from C# to B. Yamaha's answer to this is to put a slope on the leading edge of the B touchpiece.
Given a choice, though, I prefer a non-tilting table altogether.
 

CliveMA

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does rather require your finger to be a little straighter...or at least a little more down toward the Bb

I think this is my problem - the top joint of my little finger is bent inwards (a genetic trait in my family with my son's angle at near 45 degrees). Now I'm aware of the cause I can work on a solution.

20210309_112226.jpg
 
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Colin the Bear

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Playing into a mirror can be a useful strategy for revealing hand and finger movement.
 

Stephen Howard

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If it comes to the worst it might be worth considering replacing the C# roller with something more traditional.
Won't be an easy job though; the pivot for the roller is set back - so some sort of extension will be required as well as some way to keep the whole thing static. You'd also need a filler piece for the G# side of the B touchpiece, otherwise your finger will run into the sticky-out pin as you slide from the G# to the B.
I'm thinking in terms of removable mods here. If you weren't concerned about the resale value of the horn, the job gets significantly easier.
 

Guenne

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I think this is my problem - the top joint of my little finger is bent inwards (a genetic trait in my family with my son's angle at near 45 degrees).
My hands don't look different, except I'm not married.
Is there a passage you want to play, but can't with Yani?
I couldn't do trills B-C#, not with a Yani or Yamaha.

Sorry if I missed something.

Cheers, Guenne
 

turf3

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Slick things up with some grease off the side of your nose, and practice.
 

CliveMA

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My little finger isn't bent much but it does make a difference (one I'm sure can easily be overcome with practice). It limits the key real estate. I must contact the far left near the Bb roller or else I hit the bridge and miskey. It means I need a greater angle between my ring finger and little finger than a straight finger would require. Somewhere between 1% and 10% have curvature to some degree. More curvature than mine would make the angle needed uncomfortably large.

20210310_124613.jpg
20210310_124649.jpg
 

CliveMA

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Ironically, my bent finger (I think) makes it easier to rotate and depress the Bb key
 

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