Tech/maintenance Fingering low B is closing the Bb key

[QWales]

If I press B or Bb I get the last key closing but that should only happen on the Bb so I get the Bb note for both. Can someone point me in the right direction for correcting this please? In addition, would this have any relationship with my difficulty in getting a clean low D? The low D seems like a leak but plays fine with the octave down but rarely without. Also I put a high powered torch in the bell last night and there did not seem to be any leeks in the main key holes I was checking.

Just noticed that whilst playing the B the Bb tone hole cover is actually just flopping around with no tension but just happens to look like it is being operated to fit over Bb hole because that's where it falls, so I'm guessing this is a spring or cork spacer issue?

 

[Pete Thomas]

Just noticed that whilst playing the B the Bb tone hole cover is actually just flopping around with no tension but just happens to look like it is being operated to fit over Bb hole because that's where it falls, so I'm guessing this is a spring

check that the spring hasn't come unhooked.

In addition, would this have any relationship with my difficulty in getting a clean low D?

If the above B/Bb issue was caused by a knock then it's quite possible the knock put a few more things out of whack. But also if the Bb spring issue is causing it to close when playing D it may have some impact on the note. I can't check at the moment but I suggest you have a look as it should be open on all notes except Bb

 

[QWales]

Thanks Pete, I'll take another look at the springs to see if I can find anything out of place.

The only movement of the Bb is seen when operating the B or Bb

 

[QWales]

Spring found and fixed thanks 🙂

Didn't fix my D problem though unfortunately, little bit with the F too. Both much better with the octave pressed

 

[Colin the Bear]

Check Bis and G# regulation for problems with D.

 

[QWales]

Thanks Colin, I looked at info on the G# earlier and it doesn't move when I finger F or D, I think that was the tell if I'm remembering right? Not sure where Bis regulation is but I'll find out and take a look, cheers.

 

[QWales]

Took it to a tech a month or 2 back but I still didn't get a clean low D and a bit of E(not F) after he had it for a bit. Was starting to think it was me because I normally play the alto. I took it to a shop today and they found that the neck was bent a bit out of shape so he did some work but that didn't help. He struggled to reproduce the issue himself, although he puts a lot of air through when he blows his 8 mouthpiece on it. I don't blow very hard when I play but if I go at it agressively I don't get the issue or if I play a couple of other notes first and concentrate on opening up for the D, I also don't get the issue but it's just not a note I can start gently with. I tried the Trevor James Raw tenor they had in the shop with my same mouthpiece and did not have a problem with the D on that, so it's definitly not just me. I suggested swapping over the neck to see if we could rule that out(mine is the TJ SR), it didn't fit too well but I'm pretty sure it's not that as it still had a flutter at the start of the note. The E is better since the shop visit but not perfect and as I mentioned previously, this is only with the octave off. If I have the octave on, the D is fine. Might try one more tech I know in the area here and if he can't fix it i'll have to sell it and let someone who blows harder than me have it :-(

 

[Colin the Bear]

A usb leak light on eBay is around £6. A usb power pack about the same.

 

[skeller047]

I think you need a new tech, not a new horn.

 

[QWales]

I think you need a new tech, not a new horn.

Yes, that's actually 2 tech's now :-/

 

[QWales]

A usb leak light on eBay is around £6. A usb power pack about the same.

I put a very high powered torch in there in a dark room and was able to seal off all the light, so I don't think it's that, although, I must admit, it does make the most sense that it would be a leak.

 

[QWales]

Microsoft OneDrive

And yet if I put a bit more effort in I can get past it: Voice 007.m4a but surely I shouldn't have to do that

Maybe I just need to play with a more open mouth cavity, once I get the shape I can make it work pretty much every time, with just the 1 fail here

 

[Colin the Bear]

I'm not sure a torch will work as well as a string of led lights.


Other thoughts:
Neck tenon leak.
Reed position.
Neck cork.
Eb pad died.
Bis regulation.
C# pad
Lh2 C regulation.
Palm key pad dead.
Palm key fudge.
Clean the mouthpiece and crook.
Mouthpiece hairline crack.
Mouthpiece patch.
🤔

Post it to SH. 🤗

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Sounds like your attack is not crisp.
Articulation exercises, learned properly, then practiced.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

I think you need a new tech, not a new horn.

In addition, if you don't have one, an accomplished saxophone player that knows how to teach/solve problems.

 

[PigSquealer]

Has anyone checked the crook for leaks ?
Put some soapy water on the tenon joint. Cover the end with the palm of your hand. Gently hold the octave key closed. Blow on the cork and and see if you get bubbles. If you do, well you have a leak.

Second place a rubber glove over the bell. Test the crook to receiver joint. Thumb screw tightened as played. All keys closed. Soapy water on the joint and quickly blow. Use the bathroom mirror as a viewing assist. Just be conservative with the soapy water so you don’t make a mess and rust anything.

Next with all the keys closed try suction at the end of the crook. You should be able to hold suction. The glove drawn down into the bell for 10 or 15 seconds.

Lastly. With a dull flat blade. Gently lift around the boosters from E down on each pad. A loose resonator can cause your symptoms also.

 

[Steve Marshall]

You need a better light to use as a leak light - not a 'high powered torch'. A strip of LED cells does the trick. You can buy a ready made one quite cheaply or make your own.
Before checking the rest of the horn you should look at the mouthpiece position on the cork. It needs to be on enough and maybe your mouthpiece is tight on the cork so not gtoing on enough ? Typically it can be an embouchure issue going form clarinet to sax or alto to tenor. Or you may be using a reed that's a bit soft which can be hard to control on the lower notes.
If that's all OK ...
G# could be the issue. It might not be closing fully. I'm not convinced by your description that you have checked the G# regulation properly. The plastic stuff they use under the adjusting screw can become a problem. It can go soft or slide inside the screw so it can give a false impression that it is working OK.
D# is another place to look.
You need to make sure your sling is adjusted properly so you don't cause too much pressure on the neck. It's very easy to bend necks down which creates a leak at the crook octave key. You mention the neck was a bit out of shape. This could be the issue. If the neck is straightened you and you continue to press down on it, you'll just cause a leak again.
Also, if the neck has been adjusted the key might have moved and/or the pad may not be sealing. Octave pads can wear a hole through the leather. The sax will still play but can be weaker and difficult to play low notes.
It was suggested above the neck could be leaking. This can be caused by overtightening the neck screw. Tenors are a bit more sensitive to improper use.
Palm keys including high F# can get knocked causing a leak that will allow the sax to still play - mostly.
Other odd things like a bent body can cause odd issues where the sax sort of works but not 100% That can be hard to spot. But before looking for such things I think the G# and neck are the most obvious places to look.