Saxophones Fancy Martin or Chuckaround Bauhaus

Hi all,

Firstly, I don't often post, so hello to everyone.

Anyhow, I've been playing the alto for quite a while - more of my life has been spent playing than not playing, and I've wanted to get a tenor saxophone.

My alto is a cheap Trevor James Revolution student thing that is pretty poor all round - it has a handmade lawton mouthpiece that I got for ridiculously cheap from my old sax teacher that makes it a bit more bearable. When I go gigging I hate playing it down the mic as the tone is so bad, but it keeps the drunks happy. One of the benefits, however, is that I can chill when I gig in a crowed bar because if it gets dropped or whatever the world won't end. I also cycle everywhere with it on my back, again if I come off - no worries.

I've found two tenors that I like for two different reasons. One is a second hand Bauhaus Walstein TS-PD (which retails for around £800 when new) that is a few years old. The lacquer is a bit worn (which I don't care about) so they are asking for £375. It's tone is bearable, perhaps a bit on the knifeedgy sound. If I hadn't touched the Martin I would have got it - it was cheaper and better than the Trevor James Classic they also had which was £700. It's in the same school as my alto - cheap and cheerful that I won't cry over too much if it gets sat on or gets landed on in a fall.

But I saw a Martin Handcraft for £900 from around 1929ish. I think it has been re-lacquered at one point in the past as it is in fairly good nick, with some discoloration here and there. Its a fantastic two tone of silver and golden bronze. But the tone is the best bit: I've played for long enough I think to really appreciate a good tone. It is wonderfully smooth & rich at the lower end and bright & moody at the upper. It playability can only be described as like chocolate - giving pleasant enough pressure and vibrations but it isn't hard work. To put it shorter - its a fantastic sax.

But the problem is it is a bit more expensive. I'll have to get a Hiscox case as it is the only one it will fit and they are fairly sturdy, or so I've heard, for keeping the sax safe even in a motorcycle crash. Also the Martin is a bit thicker metal so perhaps it is a bit tougher.

How do those of you who have a vintage sax deal with gigging? And does anyone have any wonder stories about their cases protecting their sax in a bad fall to give me some confidence (if at all possible)? I need a few good reasons to be putting that extra money into my sax that I could be using for something else.

Thanks
 
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Hi all,

Firstly, I don't often post, so hello to everyone.

Anyhow, I've been playing the alto for quite a while - more of my life has been spent playing than not playing, and I've wanted to get a tenor saxophone.

My alto is a cheap Trevor James Revolution student thing that is pretty poor all round - it has a handmade lawson mouthpiece that I got for ridiculously cheap from my old sax teacher that makes it a bit more bearable. When I go gigging I hate playing it down the mic as the tone is so bad, but it keeps the drunks happy. One of the benefits, however, is that I can chill when I gig in a crowed bar because if it gets dropped or whatever the world won't end. I also cycle everywhere with it on my back, again if I come off - no worries.

I've found two tenors that I like for two different reasons. One is a second hand Bauhaus Walstein TS-PD (which retails for around £800 when new) that is a few years old. The lacquer is a bit worn (which I don't care about) so they are asking for £375. It's tone is bearable, perhaps a bit on the knifeedgy sound. If I hadn't touched the Martin I would have got it - it was cheaper and better than the Trevor James Classic they also had which was £700. It's in the same school as my alto - cheap and cheerful that I won't cry over too much if it gets sat on or gets landed on in a fall.

But I saw a Martin Handcraft for £900 from around 1929ish. I think it has been re-lacquered at one point in the past as it is in fairly good nick, with some discoloration here and there. Its a fantastic two tone of silver and golden bronze. But the tone is the best bit: I've played for long enough I think to really appreciate a good tone. It is wonderfully smooth & rich at the lower end and bright & moody at the upper. It playability can only be described as like chocolate - giving pleasant enough pressure and vibrations but it isn't hard work. To put it shorter - its a fantastic sax.

But the problem is it is a bit more expensive. I'll have to get a Hiscox case as it is the only one it will fit and they are fairly sturdy, or so I've heard, for keeping the sax safe even in a motorcycle crash. Also the Martin is a bit thicker metal so perhaps it is a bit tougher.

How do those of you who have a vintage sax deal with gigging? And does anyone have any wonder stories about their cases protecting their sax in a bad fall to give me some confidence (if at all possible)? I need a few good reasons to be putting that extra money into my sax that I could be using for something else.

Thanks


Have you considered insuring it?

Jx
 
I'll leave it to others to tell you how good the Bauhaus Walstein saxes are - they've got a lot of happy owners on here. I've never played one, so can't comment on how they sound, but a dark sounding mouthpiece would take the edge off.

Martins I do know a bit about, I've gigged with a Martin alto for most of my playing career and I've got a tenor from the early 30's that will be similar to the one you've spotted. If you decide to get it, check for any play in the keywork - try wiggling the keys and rods side to side in the posts and see if there's any movement, old saxes can have a fair bit of wear and tear in the mechanism and while this can be rectified by key swedgeing, paying a sax tech to sort it out would be an extra expense.
If the keywork's nice and tight and the intonation is good (old Martins can be a bit iffy intonationwise) and you're paying cash - haggle over the price, most shops will do you a bit less for cash and £900 is a bit steep for a relacquered Handcraft.
I love Martin saxes, so I've had to try to take off my rose tinted spectacles while writing this, but if you can get a good one that's been well set up and can cope with the old style keywork and not perfect intonation, there's nothing quite like one
There's 3 Martin altos for sale in the Yard Sale at the moment (Spring cleanout of saxophones) and I'm having a hard job resisting the temptation, despite already having a couple.
Cases -
For a long time I used a cheap gig bag for my alto, since I could run faster with less weight on my back, and dashing to get the last bus or train home, every second counts... plus a gig bag was less conspicuous and late night drunkards spotting a sax case and wanting you to give 'em a tune are an occupational hazard I could do without.
I would never recommend a gig bag, but I was always careful about where I put my sax - tucked away safely behind guitar amps or pa speakers, or under the table where I was sitting and I only got the instrument out when it was time to play. Sax stands weren't an option, but I've heard enough horror stories of instruments being knocked off stands that I wouldn't use one.
Now I've got a lightweight Berkeley fibreglass alto case off ebay, they don't make them anymore, but it's nice and small and portable and airport friendly. There's very little padding, so if it did get dropped the impact force would get transferred straight to the sax and cause some damage. I've never dropped a sax yet, no matter how far out of my skull I've been, but there's always a first time. I take the same precautions I've always done and keep it out of people's way with the lid closed til gig time. If I warm up, I put it back in the case and shut the lid and do up the latches and stay within visual range.
The Hiscox is definitely the strongest case you can easily get in this country. My Martin tenor (with the bell keys that stick out on both sides of the bell) fits in a Hiscox and a Gator, but I can stand on the Hiscox with minimal effect, whereas the Gator creaks before I put my full weight on it. I've got the cheapest of the Hiscox range and it would benefit from a bit more padding - bubble wrap or a towel would be good to help cushion the blow should it ever hit the deck. The straps on Hiscox cases are good and strong. The strap on the Gator came apart at the stitching.
My mate used to cycle to gigs with his tenor in a Hiscox, he said it was heavy and awkward but just about doable, maybe a Protec case would be better
 
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I do mostly pub gigs and I usually have about £8,000 worth of saxes with me. They are insured but in 30+ years of gigging I've never had any trouble (apart from self inflicted).
I used to gig with a 20s Conn alto and an old Conn stencil baritone but I got fed up with the maintenance issues of old saxes and stick with reliable modern ones now.
 
Thank you very much for your reply. When I looked at it in the shop I was careful about the keys and had a good look at them. It was in very good condition and played very well. I was careful about this to start - I've lurked around here long enough to be wary when looking at a vintage.

I've actually decided to go ahead with the purchase but with some changes. I was looking on gumtree/ebay ect just to check the price and I noticed that the price was a bit steep. I then stumbled across a seller who was fairly local to me who was selling one with a case for £850. Gave him a call to ask about it, and it turned out it was the same sax! We chatted for a bit and he said he would sell the sax, the case and 2 years of general wear warranty (he's a semi pro tech with previous experience and he was the guy who had done the very good overhaul before he popped it in the shop).

Pretty happy with the results. The whole afternoon has been full of deliberations. Five hours of deliberations is pretty tiring. I'm glad about the two years of care - makes my life a bit easier for a couple of years 😀.
 
While you`re at it , get him to take a look at the Revolution , it`s their more intermediate Taiwan series with an excellent reputation (the classics are the serious student models, the Artemis the cheap Chinesers in the TJ range ) so should be an excellent player , if you`re finding it`s poor then it sounds like it needs work .. after a service from a good tech, I bet you won`t recognise it (Unless you simply don`t like the sound it makes, many people choose Revs and higher TJs for their sound)
 
Thank you very much for your reply. When I looked at it in the shop I was careful about the keys and had a good look at them. It was in very good condition and played very well. I was careful about this to start - I've lurked around here long enough to be wary when looking at a vintage.

I've actually decided to go ahead with the purchase but with some changes. I was looking on gumtree/ebay ect just to check the price and I noticed that the price was a bit steep. I then stumbled across a seller who was fairly local to me who was selling one with a case for £850. Gave him a call to ask about it, and it turned out it was the same sax! We chatted for a bit and he said he would sell the sax, the case and 2 years of general wear warranty (he's a semi pro tech with previous experience and he was the guy who had done the very good overhaul before he popped it in the shop).

Pretty happy with the results. The whole afternoon has been full of deliberations. Five hours of deliberations is pretty tiring. I'm glad about the two years of care - makes my life a bit easier for a couple of years 😀.

Hi BenJT, glad you got the Martin. I still intend on getting an old Martin tenor but need to have a clear out in order to achieve my ambitions. I don't gig but I know that a vintage sax needs a little more TLC than a new horn. I don't believe there are many new horns that have the Martin sound (yet to find one). Everything that Altissimo said I fully agree with. Good luck with your Martin and post a photo/keep us updated. I could never be without one........hence my Martin Master will never leave me.
 
.... but I got fed up with the maintenance issues of old saxes and stick with reliable modern ones now.

Depends of what kind of old sax you 're playing. An old Martin Comm I or II is one of the best saxes that ever been made. I've owned most models and brands, but I've not found any saxes with so much "built-in" quality as I find on these Martin models. If they are in good shape and correct set-up they plays well for many many years.
 
I do mostly pub gigs and I usually have about £8,000 worth of saxes with me. They are insured but in 30+ years of gigging I've never had any trouble (apart from self inflicted).

I would never recommend a gig bag, but I was always careful about where I put my sax - tucked away safely behind guitar amps or pa speakers, or under the table where I was sitting and I only got the instrument out when it was time to play. Sax stands weren't an option, but I've heard enough horror stories of instruments being knocked off stands that I wouldn't use one.

I've never dropped a sax yet, no matter how far out of my skull I've been, but there's always a first time. I take the same precautions I've always done and keep it out of people's way with the lid closed til gig time. If I warm up, I put it back in the case and shut the lid and do up the latches and stay within visual range.

My mate used to cycle to gigs with his tenor in a Hiscox, he said it was heavy and awkward but just about doable, maybe a Protec case would be better

Thanks guys. I suppose if your careful and keep an eye on what your drinking, other people and where you've put it, it can't go wrong. I'm just paranoid of destroying a fantastic working sax in a terrible accident :s.

While you`re at it , get him to take a look at the Revolution , it`s their more intermediate Taiwan series with an excellent reputation (the classics are the serious student models, the Artemis the cheap Chinesers in the TJ range ) so should be an excellent player , if you`re finding it`s poor then it sounds like it needs work .. after a service from a good tech, I bet you won`t recognise it (Unless you simply don`t like the sound it makes, many people choose Revs and higher TJs for their sound)

I think it's a mixture of that it does need a bit of love and it is a brighter sounding sax. I love very smooth sax noise - more of a jazz/blues player than a rock player, and I think the less bright the better for most jazz (up to a limit I suppose). Also as I've played that alto from a very young age I think I've treated it with less respect than I should do. Trying to get a kid to clean anything is a chore and I think old habits die hard. Don't worry - I will keep the Martin in good condition. I couldn't live with myself if I didn't.

Would that be Alan McGinnity in New Brighton? If so, he's the best sax tech in the area and does the repairs for Curly's

No he isn't, he's a player with quite a few saxes which he keeps in good nick himself after doing so repair work for a few shops in the past. I've used Alan a few times but what I've always asked to be done has been lost in translation as I often send it with a friend of mine who lives near to him and has a car. It means it's been cheap but not fully done - my fault rather than Alans.

Hi BenJT, glad you got the Martin. I still intend on getting an old Martin tenor but need to have a clear out in order to achieve my ambitions. I don't gig but I know that a vintage sax needs a little more TLC than a new horn. I don't believe there are many new horns that have the Martin sound (yet to find one). Everything that Altissimo said I fully agree with. Good luck with your Martin and post a photo/keep us updated. I could never be without one........hence my Martin Master will never leave me.

I agree - it was a fantastic rich, thick sound. I like to take people whenever I go shopping for expensive items for my variety of hobbies to keep me in check. People who don't do the hobby are great as they ask good questions about whether it is worth it. I took my mum who is normally very good with money but even she was won over by the tone and that proved it for me. It is exciting to have a sax that will give me that wonderful dark sound.

Depends of what kind of old sax you 're playing. An old Martin Comm I or II is one of the best saxes that ever been made. I've owned most models and brands, but I've not found any saxes with so much "built-in" quality as I find on these Martin models. If they are in good shape and correct set-up they plays well for many many years.

It seemed very sturdy and set up well, so hopefully you're right 😀

Great news. Enjoy.

Will do! Getting it either today or tomorrow night - so excited!
 
Now the question is................what mouthpiece, lig and reed!!!!

I played it once with a Yamaha of some description and it sounded great. Then I was shown the case and found a mouthpiece in there and used that. No idea what it is - but it made it play fantastically! Got me even closer to my favorite tone and easier to play. I'll have a look at that again when it's in my hands.

I'm a bit of a vandoran fan, but I need to find the grade. Going to try a few reeds from 1.5 - 3 and see what works best. My mouthpiece on my alto is quite wide with a vandoran 2 strength, so I imagine around that.
 
You may have the original mouthpiece. That would be great. My Typewriteer came with the original mpc and the sound is so dark and soulful......it sounds like the '30s and pre amplification. I also use an Otto Link and a silver plated Selmer C** for some different days. Altissimo and Thomsax (along with other forum members) will offer great advice
 
Picked it up tonight and had a good play. My lip is fairly sore from jamming in my local music bar on Sunday as I was trying to keep up with playing classic rock loud enough down a kack microphone (beer was also involved). I'm playing a tad off on the upper register, but the control I have over the note is so considerable that I think that a bit of getting used to the sax, and the tenor sax as a whole, will fix that.


You may have the original mouthpiece. That would be great.

Having a good look at the mouthpiece it seems to be an unbranded plastic mouthpiece with what could be the original lig (or something fairly old). It has a H on the top of it which suggests Handcraft to me...

I'm trying to untangle two mysteries right now. Firstly is it's age. The shop guessed 1929 by the keywork (it has high F, bevelled toneholes, but no C# adjuster) which puts in the middle of phase 2 and 3 according to the martin story. However, its serial number is 57k which is the middle of phase 2 alone. My feeling that since the Handcraft was built between 1907-1931, and reached 108k serial numbers, that 57k would perhaps put it around 1926.

I've just had a look at the keywork of the front F and I have a feeling it may be a later addition - the saxophone is so well thought out apart from this one bit. The pad (which is a nice fleece like material) seems to be pushing not on the B keypad (vocab here) but on the arm that attaches the keypad to left hand rod (again vocab would be nice). It is also a cork key instead of pearl found on the rest of the sax. I'm fairly confident due those main points and a few other little details that a job was done to create this system at some point. This means that the serial is right and that this is an actual phase 2.

The second mystery is bugging me, and it also bugged the guy I bought it from. Just an inch to the left of the serial number there is a 3/4inch (ish) tonehole. It is connected to the right hand E key. It stays opened until the E key is pressed in. The only way to operate it by itself is to finger a G with the left hand and press only the right hand D key down. It's currently kept shut with a piece of cork as I feel it is adding pointless resistance when the horn is blown, and it makes, as far as I can tell, no difference to the note played.

Does anyone know anything about this? What could it possibly be? I wonder whether both me and the previous owner have missed a trick with this key.
 
the dating of Martin saxes is full of pitfalls, my 108xx Martin Handcraft is dated to 1934 according to the serial number list, but the Martin Story website says "Martin Handcraft saxophones Made 1907 - 1931 (Ser# 0 - 108k)"
All that 'Phase 1, Phase 2, Phase3" stuff is really just attempts at classification by collectors.
The front F mechanism on mine is quite normal, so I guess yours could've been added later - front F doesn't seem to have been a feature of Handcrafts of your serial number range - http://www.saxpics.com/?v=gal&a=2315
the other key you describe could be an articulated E-flat key, but I'm only guessing. Things like this usually end up being disconnected and wedged shut.
No doubt other Martin fiends will give you more info
 
Vintage horns are lovely. Lovely to behold.

But they have some drawbacks and it's usually intonation and/or ergonomics. Intonation is often down to trying to use modern mouthpieces with bores not designed for the older horns.

Regarding surviving a crash on a motorcycle, a bauhaus is more likely than any other horn to do that. It's not about the thickness but about the strength, see:

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/Reviews/Saxes/Tenor/Walstein_versus_Yanagisawa.htm

I'd go for the bauhaus any day.

I'd not be quite so sure if we are talking a more modern Martin, e.g. a Committee III, but not a 20s model.
 

Similar threads... or are they? Maybe not but they could be worth reading anyway 😀

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