Double tonguing

[FastFred]

Had a 'lesson' tonight, really just play along with tutor. Jazz improvising, aebersold books.

Tutor said I was doing some nice rapid doubling tonguing; I asked what that was as i honestly didn't know! Afterwards when I thought about it I realised that I am not actually doubling tonguing (cos I am not quick enough yet) but was just rapidly stopping and starting the notes with my diaphragm (along with some tongued notes but mainly slurred) and creating the effect by the rise/fall air pressure from the diaphragm. Is it wrong to do this or do others do it?

 

[thomsax]

Congratulations! You've managed to get your teacher to pay attention to your playing in positive way!:welldone I think this is what saxplaying is all about: To develope your own style and make other and yourself pleased with what you're doing.

I think double tonguing is a technique that is hard to learn. I think you almost need a classical setup. I've gone in the other direction. For ten years ago I learned how to "ghosting". Is an important articulation in jazz, blues and rock. Your tongue should cradle the reed while you you're playing a note whithout affecting the pitch. The tone will become darker and the the volume will also drop a bit as well. The faster you withdraw your tongue from the reed the better will the effect of the ghosting be. Alan (Candy Dulfer) on this tread wonder about the vibrato/thills the hornsection created on the "Pick Up the Pieces"-clip. Maybe the saxplayer is playing ghosted notes? For example: If you play A open (without tongue) and A ghosted, Bb open and Bb ghosted, B open and B ghosted .... you get an intersting lick with a change in the tonecolour. Ghosting sounds cool and very laidback. The other year I had the opportunity to watch one of my favourite saxplayer very close on gig behind the scene. I've always thought that his technique is amazing. When I asked him how he manged to get the cool effects (ghosting/thrill..) he answered me: Oh, that's nothing! The mouthpiece (an old costumised metal Link) and a "lazy man tounging" is doing most of the job!" Double tounging, ghosting, thrills, "lazy man tounging" ..... the naming of effects is not all clear. But they all sounds cool.

Contiune to develope your own style and methods. Maybe someday you can get some money back from your teacher!

Thomas

 

[half diminished]

Had a 'lesson' tonight, really just play along with tutor. Jazz improvising, aebersold books.

Tutor said I was doing some nice rapid doubling tonguing; I asked what that was as i honestly didn't know! Afterwards when I thought about it I realised that I am not actually doubling tonguing (cos I am not quick enough yet) but was just rapidly stopping and starting the notes with my diaphragm (along with some tongued notes but mainly slurred) and creating the effect by the rise/fall air pressure from the diaphragm. Is it wrong to do this or do others do it?

I seem to recall from an Andy Sheppard master-class when asked about this teqhnique he said he wasn't sure how he did it so he played some and the announced that it was a bit of both diaphragm and tongue.

 

[Pee Dee]

Can anyone explain what ghost tongueing is? Does it mean play, say, B without tongueing, then put the tongue on the reed just before changing to, say, C and repeating? A detailed, in depth description, preferably with diagrams would be nice. Or info where to find same.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Can anyone explain what ghost tongueing is? Does it mean play, say, B without tongueing, then put the tongue on the reed just before changing to, say, C and repeating? A detailed, in depth description, preferably with diagrams would be nice. Or info where to find same.

Some info: Saxophone Dooden Tonguing

 

[Pee Dee]

Saxophone Dooden Tonguing

Ok, thanks Pete, I had a feeling you would come up with the works.
Mmmm, like the sound of that, could give my feeble impro attempts a lift, I'll get that Person/Gordon/Getz/Young/Hamilton/Thomas etc sound yet

 

[thomsax]

Can anyone explain what ghost tongueing is? Does it mean play, say, B without tongueing, then put the tongue on the reed just before changing to, say, C and repeating? A detailed, in depth description, preferably with diagrams would be nice. Or info where to find same.

Here comes some easy ghosting exercises. I uploaded in two parts and with the charts as well. It's from Andrew Clarks first Masterclass. So it's Andrew talking and playing. We use to do this as warm-up at our Rocksax workshops. You can include ghosting as an improvasion over just one-note. You can play the note ghosted, overtone (without octave key), with overtone fingerings, bended, growl, fluttered, double tone (doo wop), double tonguing or tripple tonguing .... You can do a lot with just one tone.

http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm201/thomsax/?action=view&current=ghosting1_0001.flv

http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm201/thomsax/?action=view&current=ghosting2_0001.flv

Since this first was about double tonguing, here is a classical clip, Czardas (Vittorio Monti), played by Dr. Keith R Young. Good double tonguing!

http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm201/thomsax/?action=view&current=Film.flv

 

[Pee Dee]

Here comes some easy ghosting exercises. I uploaded in two parts and with the charts as well. It's from Andrew Clarks first Masterclass. So it's Andrew talking and playing. We use to do this as warm-up at our Rocksax workshops. You can include ghosting as an improvasion over just one-note. You can play the note ghosted, overtone (without octave key), with overtone fingerings, bended, growl, fluttered, double tone (doo wop), double tonguing or tripple tonguing .... You can do a lot with just one tone.

http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm201/thomsax/?action=view&current=ghosting1_0001.flv

http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm201/thomsax/?action=view&current=ghosting2_0001.flv

Since this first was about double tonguing, here is a classical clip, Czardas (Vittorio Monti), played by Dr. Keith R Young. Good double tonguing!

http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm201/thomsax/?action=view&current=Film.flv

Thanks for that Thom. Tells me all I need to know, now to work.......
I already tried playing with my tongue on the reed - silence!
This is gonna need a lot of practice methinks!