Saxophones Dore Alto... looks SML, but which Rev?

[DavidUK]

Spotted this, and it smacked of SML "Rev X" to me. Can you see the same clues I did?
Now, any SML experts care to offer an opinion on which SML version?...

I wonder if @helen or @peterpick has ever come across a Dore by SML?

Anyone please chip in with any knowledge.

 

[peterpick]

something after 1948 i thnk.... if i could see the neck receiver i could get closer. could be a rev d or a gold medal (for example). SML made very few stencils, some for these people, some masspachers i think, something called a corvette (or condor, was it?) and some louis augus.

 

[DavidUK]

Thanks Peter.

Was it Commodore you're thinking of? Maybe later abbreviated to "Dore"?

 

[peterpick]

commodore, yes david i think you're right. i'm sure we could look it up on helen's list on 'bassic sax'

 

[DavidUK]

Bassic stencils page in maintenance mode. Has been for months. Does Helen know?

 

[peterpick]

oh yes.... that's a pity, it's such a useful site. by the way, SML tooling seems to have been sold to china when selmer bought them out, and was used to make early 'parrot' brand saxes. from rev 'c' on sml's had the segmented neck receiver and removable ring.

 

[thomsax]

I doubt SML were big enough to make stencils or second line saxes! A former tech was trained and worked on the "line" at SML. They just made c 400 saxes/year. Lots of speculations about SML.

 

[DavidUK]

You don't think it's an SML?

There are known stencils made by them, just not "Standard DORE"... so far.

 

[thomsax]

The engraving on the bell doesn't say it was made by SML? Can be a SML built sax .... and who cares as long as the sax is a good player and with the money. The last King Margiaux saxes didn't have the SML name/logo on the bell. Still built as SML but who made the saxes?

My friend laughed when we read that 300 former Selmer workers joined SML. The SML "plant" was very small.

 

[peterpick]

I doubt SML were big enough to make stencils or second line saxes! A former tech was trained and worked on the "line" at SML. They just made c 400 saxes/year. Lots of speculations about SML.

you're wrong about stencils, thom, i own SMLs made for Louis Augu and - famously - HN White / King of the USA. seems like production varied greatly - in 1943 they made 99 saxes and in 1955 they made 3,000, this according to pete hales.... also, they ran a 'second line' when they made the 'super' series and on they also produced 'standard' models without rolled toneholes - these they also sold as stencils, as above.

 

[thomsax]

you're wrong about stencils, thom, i own SMLs made for Louis Augu and - famously - HN White / King of the USA. seems like production varied greatly - in 1943 they made 99 saxes and in 1955 they made 3,000, this according to pete hales.... also, they ran a 'second line' when they made the 'super' series and on they also produced 'standard' models without rolled toneholes - these they also sold as stencils, as above.

It's not easy for me. Who shall I believe? My friend that worked on SML back then or the guys behind the "on-going" SML party. No more comments from me.

 

[peterpick]

okay thom, i don't want to argue either, but when did your friend work for SML?

 

[thomsax]

okay thom, i don't want to argue either, but when did your friend work for SML?

68-71 I think. The old place.

 

[peterpick]

in 1964 they only managed 49. as far as i can see production varied wildly, but never reached 1000 except in 1955. 400 seems a likely figure, sometimes 700 were achieved.

 

[jonf]

I don't know much about the sax, but what I will say is that looks like the worst saxophone case I've ever seen.

 

[DavidUK]

Yes, I've advised how to pack it... IF I buy it... IF?
Some more photos/videos...

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Niu0QvRa7xY?feature=share

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/QpvF4Bno9yE?feature=share

 

[peterpick]

looking at the videos it seems to be a bit of a mixture - the strap-ring is old-style, the keyguards on the other hand are removable plate metal. the bell-brace is post 1946, the neck receiver is pre 1949. does it have rolled toneholes? i couldn't see, but i think not. these design changes are SML official production, the stencil lines would quite likely be different in small ways. it seems the louis augu stencils from rev c / standard horns were specified for certain features by the buyer.

 

[DavidUK]

I just came to the conclusion it's an SML "Standard" (as written above Dore on the bell) in either Rev C or D period?

See: The SML Standard Models :: SaxPics.com

...and pics: Photo Gallery :: SaxPics.com

Straight tone holes I think, pads look newer. Worth a punt at... well Peter, what should I pay?

 

[peterpick]

the rev c had the neck receiver like the d and gold medal with 4 slots in for even tightening.... no-one else did this except now selmer have adopted something similar in the 'supreme' series. the number would tell you the date of manufacture. it could be that the neck receiver was a thing SML did not wish to share too widely, or it was just too expensive for dore.

i would pay more than you, so it's no good asking me! it should be a good-sounding sax, though, and it looks great. the main problem with SMLs i find is that the little-finger table is heavy.

 

[DavidUK]

It's a remote purchase so no chance to look it over.

My usual limit is £100 for most "interesting finds"...