Mouthpieces Does mouthpiece material affect the sound

[kevgermany]

Found an interesting article on the effect of the material in sax mouthpieces on the sound produced. Although it's written by a scientist, it's basically a comparison test and no tech knowledge is needed. Some interesting results & conclusions, but I'll let you read for yourself.

https://www.12000.org/my_courses/UCI_COURSES/CREDIT_COURSES/summer_2003/physics7E/class_supplement/Does_Saxophone_Mouthpiece_Material_Matter.pdf

 

[Andante cantabile]

Thank you Kev. The conclusions of this article are in line with other test results, but of course few will believe that they are right.

Be that as it may, this posting reminded me of an article that appeared about twelve years ago in the Scientific American. It compares materials used for Irish flutes, including one made of concrete. But read the article foryourself:

irishflutes.net

 

[kevgermany]

Thanks Chris.

Concrete flute - superb! Thanks Beckmesser! Hadn't seen that before.

Interestingly, Germany's top Oboist, Albrecht Mayer, used to play a Buffet Greenline instrument of the grenadilla chippings and plastic.... But he seems to have switched back to a wood one.

 

[Morgan Fry]

Interesting little study, and close to doing it right. But his data dowsn't support his conclusions. There is a distinct difference between the two mouthpieces according to the spectral analyses.

 

[TomMapfumo]

My main reflection was the influence of material on mouthpiece shape, design, weight and so on. I play a Francois Louis Mouthpiece on Tenor (made of a composite material which presents as less bulky than ebonite, and uses an alto sized ligature. I would have to say that the shape feels more comfortable for me than either ebonite (just a little too large) or metal (just too small). How much this plays a part in the sound is open to speculation, but I do notice a significant difference in sound (as does my wife!). So I wonder whether the main influence on sound is design/size of mouthpiece, rather than material per se, but that material does have an important influence on size etc. and playing comfort. When I play trombone/trumpet mouthpieces they do have different designs and sounds, though mostly use plated brass, but the shapes & levels of comfort do differ above and beyond cup size and bore (read chamber and tip opening!).

Interesting.
Kind regards
Tom😎

 

[Morgan Fry]

I play a Francois Louis Mouthpiece on Tenor (made of a composite material which presents as less bulky than ebonite, and uses an alto sized ligature. I would have to say that the shape feels more comfortable for me than either ebonite (just a little too large) or metal (just too small). How much this plays a part in the sound is open to speculation, but I do notice a significant difference in sound (as does my wife!). So I wonder whether the main influence on sound is design/size of mouthpiece, rather than material per se.

This is an interesting point, Tom. A narrower body is the entire point behind Ralph Morgan's Exclibur pieces. The have the exact same chamber, baffle, facings as the Jazz model but sound significntly brighter because of the thinner shell. I'm not 100% sure how the thinner body makes this so, but it certainly seems to work. Of course, internl dimensions are by far the biggest factor in determining sound, but I don't think they are the only thing.

 

[Danny@HSM]

Kidding 😉

It is my first post here, it will be a pleasure for me to share my knowledge on saxophone and clarinet mouthpieces and try to be really helpful with beginners and pros so please ask!

Cheers,

Danny

 

[aldevis]

Thanks Danny.
Do you volcanize your own rubber?
And more pictures of your pieces would be welcome. 🙂

 

[Danny@HSM]

Sure, in time I will

 

[Pete Thomas]

I remember when we met at Frankfurt, I tried a couple of your alto pieces but found the facing a bit to different to my usual. I'd love to try them again, would you enteretain the idea of doing a passaround maybe? Seeing as we have the Rico passaround about to happen, it would be great for people to compare and I will do a soundclip for my alto mouthpiece comparison page.

No tenor mouthpieces allowed, we only play PPT tenor pieces here (only joking)

 

[Ads]

I`d certainly like to try a Tenor 7 .. and OK, yes I do play a PPT 8* which is a keeper but I`ve no aversion to adding something deeper and darker for a different sound ...

The Rico passaround is going well, Aldevis to myself and now onto Colin who's reviewing them now .

 

[Danny@HSM]

I remember when we met at Frankfurt, I tried a couple of your alto pieces but found the facing a bit to different to my usual. I'd love to try them again, would you enteretain the idea of doing a passaround maybe? Seeing as we have the Rico passaround about to happen, it would be great for people to compare and I will do a soundclip for my alto mouthpiece comparison page.

No tenor mouthpieces allowed, we only play PPT tenor pieces here (only joking)

Thanks Pete, I will think about it. I am currently working on a new version of the Revo for alto. As soon it will be ready I will contact you first. Hey, your tenor mouthpiece looks amazing too 😉

 

[aldevis]

A serious question:
do you think that the counter-vibration of the beak against the reed has an effect on the sound?
It definitely feels like, but it might be that the player actually modifies his/her embouchure.

 

[Pete Thomas]

A serious question:
do you think that the counter-vibration of the beak against the reed has an effect on the sound?
It definitely feels like, but it might be that the player actually modifies his/her embouchure.

This is one of Dr. Pillinger's theories, which I believe may be entirely plausible.

 

[aldevis]

This is one of Dr. Pillinger's theories, which I believe may be entirely plausible.

But I am tempted to include the material matter in it...

Note to Danny:
The original PPT (the white one) was developed by Thomas & Pillinger.
I have a special exemption to be allowed not to play a PPT, but most of the content of my mouthpiece drawer comes from Dr. Pillinger's workshop.
In particular recently I had a vintage piece replicated that sparked new thoughts about materials, and the beak explanation seems to be the easiest to accept.

 

[Danny@HSM]

mmmm... we should not forget reeds vibrate against the rails which can be made of different materials showing different degrees of hardness. This should in principle affects the sound more than anything else. Said so, one side of the mouthpiece stays on the neck cork and the other side in the player mouth. In a simulation you can imagine the mouthpiece at rest and a reed which vibrates against the mouthpiece. At least I would model it this way. But... theory is just an approximation of the realty. Any saxophone player knows there are vibrations transmitted to the mouthpiece and if they are strong enough they will "probably" affect the sound some way.

 

[aldevis]

mmmm... we should not forget reeds vibrate against the rails which can be made of different materials showing different degrees of hardness.

Are you thinking of basic material elasticity (like a ball bouncing on a rubber floor) or would you include structural flexibility (a ball bouncing on a trampoline)?

There is some writing by Ralph Morgan somewhere, about filing the beak of a mouthpiece. I find that makes a big difference, but I struggle to formalize it.

 

[Danny@HSM]

I understand your question. What I can say is that I expect a mouthpiece to vibrate less than a reed... Anyway on some mouthpieces structural effects (which in principle are always present) can be more important than in others. Just my two cents

 

[Saxlicker]

this is the best I could find - http://www.stohrermusic.com/2011/05/otto-link-mouthpieces-past-and-present/

Do you have pics? or is there a separate thread for this started already?

 

[altissimo]

Do you have pics? or is there a separate thread for this started already?

not yet... and not yet...