Ligatures Does a ligature make any difference?

[AlanU]

I wasn't going to get into this argument, but.

I think a ligature can influence the sound enormously. I've read, in various places, the opinion that the nearer the player the more difference a change makes. It makes sense to me, the rest is the instrument which has its own characteristics.

So, we have the mouthpiece, the reed and the ligature.
Let's assume the mouthpiece has the qualities you are looking for and the table is level. The reed is perfect, so all that's needed is to hold the two together.
Simple, except the usual brass ligature wraps around the mouthpice and only really applies pressure at the sides of the reed, crimping the sides together. How can that help it lay flat on the table? There has to be conflict.
The ligature that comes with the Metal Otto Link having a single screw pushing up a rather flimsy plate leaves a hefty dent on the reed. So that isn't applying a very even pressure is it.

The answer has to be the cradle approach of the 'Rovner' type ligature, where the nasty screwing and clamping is not inflicted on the blissful union of mouthpiece and reed.

I think what we have now is an effective combination, without all that interference from lousy ligatures.
If it sounds too dark/mellow/whatever for you a brighter mouthpiece may be an option.

ps. all new mouthpieces benefit enormously by having the table levelled. Most are not very flat straight out of the box and can be easily improved.

 

[Nick Wyver]

I wasn't going to get into this argument, but.

Could be a bad move. ;}

I think a ligature can influence the sound enormously.

Enormously? Ok, I know I'm old and my ears aren't what they used to be, but I can identify differences between every reed I get out of a box and utterly fail to identify any differences between any ligatures. I'm prepared to believe that there may be differences but to say that they're enormous seems somewhat preposterous.

As a matter of interest, have you ever done an experiment where you try to identify ligatures whilst blindfolded, a bit like the one that someone did with flute body materials.? I've not managed to come across anyone that's done this yet.

 

[daveysaxboy]

I think ligatures are very important indeed,more so on response than sound but i can still hear a difference in sound with most ligs.Well i think so and thats all that matters to me so thats why i have a big box of ligs.My Theo Wanne mp ligs come with 3 different pressure plates of which are bare thick brass,solid silver and a thin brass plate and i can hear a difference and can feel the response from plate to plate,the thin goldplated plate plays alot brighter and free compared to the heavy brass plate which dulls the sound,more rounder and with less attack ,the solid silver plate feels in between but thats me and as said if you hear it thats all that matters.If you ever had a Guardala mp just try a Selmer 402 3 band lig on it and it sings,they are a ideal match but again thats only my choice and likes.I would say response is the key for me.

 

[stefank]

Some make more difference than others. For me, the greatest difference I have noticed is with the Rovner ligature, which seems to dampen the sound (ie take out a fair amount of the top end), which quite suits me if I'm using one of my "brighter" mouthpieces. Apart from that the others I have are much of a muchness. I do own a Vandoren Optimum with the three different plates, and yes I can tell the difference between them, but that difference is not much more (perhaps even less) than one might expect to get between five different reeds out of the same box.

 

[Nick Wyver]

Can you pick them out blindfolded?

 

[jthole]

Oh well, I've even played with a rubber band when I didn't have a matching ligature for a mouthpiece (yet). Works as well, and you can even adjust the pressure on the different parts of the reed.

Ligatures do matter, but probably much more in the feel than in the actual sound (for the public). A good or bad reed makes more difference.

I prefer Rovner ligatures myself; they are easy and they work well.

 

[stefank]

Can you pick them out blindfolded?

Easy! The Rovners are soft and squishy, while all the others are quite hard. ;}

Seriously, with regard to the Rovners I believe I could pick them blindfold from any other lig I own (given the same mouthpiece/reed combination). With regard to the Optimum, I've just been using the one plate (the one with four dots) for about three years now (this is on a Morgan 3C - my classical/concert band setup) and I really haven't got the charcteristics of the others "in my head" anymore, particularly as I didn't ever play them much. I could well make mistakes with a blindfold.

 

[Nick Wyver]

Ah! Belief is a wonderful thing.;}

 

[Andante cantabile]

Oh well, I've even played with a rubber band when I didn't have a matching ligature for a mouthpiece (yet). Works as well, and you can even adjust the pressure on the different parts of the reed.

Ligatures do matter, but probably much more in the feel than in the actual sound (for the public). A good or bad reed makes more difference.

I have tried the rubber band too, just to see whether it works. I can assure you it does. It all makes me rather sceptical of particular claims of the merits or otherwise of a ligature. I am sure that much of it is in the feel. Bear in mind that the medical people have worked out years ago that in some situations placebos have a beneficial effect.

 

[stefank]

Ah! Belief is a wonderful thing.;}

Belief founded on totally subjective (what it feels like to me - I don't know what it sounds like to others) observation!

 

[AlanU]

So do placebos in the ear of the beholder.

Panacea was the goddess of healing. A bit of a do-gooder really.
Never really fixed anything but everyone felt better that she had applied herself.

Anyway, levelling the table of your mouthpiece is going to make more of a difference than anything said here.

 

[Andante cantabile]

So do placebos in the ear of the beholder.

Well, you caught me out. I meant placebo, and keyed in panacea. There is a difference, and I should have been alert to it.

 

[Taz]

As a matter of interest, have you ever done an experiment where you try to identify ligatures whilst blindfolded, a bit like the one that someone did with flute body materials.? I've not managed to come across anyone that's done this yet.

I have indeed tried that test Nick, I tried my Eddie Daniel lig and tested it against a standard metal "came with the sax type" and do you know what?



I couldn't find my sax )))))) :thankyou:

 

[Justin Chune]

Bois ligatures are favourably reviewed in the Autumn edition of the CASS magazine. It has the appearance of a ring or nut and just slips over reed and mouthpiece. there are no screws to tighten. They cost £18 to £25. Has anyone tried these yet?

Jim.

 

[MMM]

Bois ligatures are favourably reviewed in the Autumn edition of the CASS magazine. It has the appearance of a ring or nut and just slips over reed and mouthpiece. there are no screws to tighten. They cost £18 to £25. Has anyone tried these yet?

Jim.

Save yourself £25: go to a curtain shop and find a wood (or why not experiment with plastic?) curtain ring of the right size, you'll probably pay 30p at the most!

To answer the original question, my personal view is that the ligature does influence the sound.
Personal experience: I bought a Meyer 7 ebonite for my tenor with a Rovner lig (on recommendation of my then tutor), used it a couple of months, hated it, put in its box. Couple of years later, got a metal ligature on it and love it! Not my main piece, but when the mood is right, I thoroughly enjoy it!

Cheers,
M.