Beginner (playing) Discomfort normal?

[wooster]

This is a sneaky embouchure question, I'm afraid, however, I'm not asking how to form an embouchure so hopefully this is a slightly different.

I'm wondering if it's normal to have a bit of twitchy numb feeling of discomfort ( caused by muscle fatigue ) on the outside of the nostrils down in a line to the upper lip and a little more of the same discomfort on the cheeks in a line from the corners of the mouth going back towards the ears for an inch or two. Does such a feeling suggest I'm doing something really silly or is this where I should get this feeling in developing my embouchure?

I have an appointment with my old teacher on Friday and so I'm hoping he'll put me right but as I'm paranoid about getting another injury I want to make sure I don't do any harm before I meet him.

Thank you for helping

 

[wakyct]

I have had a feeling of a tired embouchure before, usually after finishing a practice session with a slightly too hard reed, but that feeling went away in less than a few minutes.

 

[skeller047]

Twitchy, yes. Numb, no. Numbness is often a sign of loss of blood flow, which implies too much pressure. It's actually harder (for me, anyway) to use just the right amount of pressure in a steady way, I think it takes more muscle strength to keep your embouchure "just right" than it does to use too much pressure.

I haven't been playing for the last couple of weeks, so I expect when I start again it will take a week or so to get back in shape. I expect fatigue and twitches until then. (Hmmmmm... "Fatigue and Twitches" - good name for a tune!)

 

[wooster]

Thank you. I will make sure and concentrate on easing off. But the affected areas are in the right place? If you know what I mean

 

[Woodpad]

The fatigue betwee mouth and ear could be too much jaw pressure, so ask your teacher.

 

[Dr G]

I'm wondering if it's normal to have a bit of twitchy numb feeling of discomfort ( caused by muscle fatigue ) on the outside of the nostrils down in a line to the upper lip and a little more of the same discomfort on the cheeks in a line from the corners of the mouth going back towards the ears for an inch or two. Does such a feeling suggest I'm doing something really silly or is this where I should get this feeling in developing my embouchure?

How do you know it is due to muscle fatigue?

I have an appointment with my old teacher on Friday and so I'm hoping he'll put me right but as I'm paranoid about getting another injury I want to make sure I don't do any harm before I meet him.

“another injury” is a flag to me. If you have a related previous injury, you should be all the more cautious. If you think it is an overuse injury, then back off the use case by reducing either duration or intensity.

The embouchure muscles can be exercised by alternating between a whistle and a smile (try it while driving or waiting). You can fatigue those muscles with just that exercise and no instrument. It’s an exercise that most can perform with little worry about overuse injury and helps build some baseline of stamina.

 

[wooster]

How do you know it is due to muscle fatigue?



“another injury” is a flag to me. If you have a related previous injury, you should be all the more cautious. If you think it is an overuse injury, then back off the use case by reducing either duration or intensity.

The embouchure muscles can be exercised by alternating between a whistle and a smile (try it while driving or waiting). You can fatigue those muscles with just that exercise and no instrument. It’s an exercise that most can perform with little worry about overuse injury and helps build some baseline of stamina.

I had TMJ but I have this odd hyper-mobility thing that means I can easily injure joints generally. I have a history of tendonitis and arthritis here and there. I will try your whistle/smile exercise though - I'm aware all of this is making me sound like a crackpot - I have, interestingly, lost the ability to whistle these last few years so I might need to start with that!

Anyway I will do this until I see my teacher on Friday. Thank you for your help.

 

[ESJohn]

You didn't mention the reed strength you were using. My experience similar to yours is in another post from a few years back, In a nutshell, I was using a 3.5 reed when after an hour's or so use, my lips cramped and became numb. I made a few attempts that evening with that same reed and got the same results. My normal reed was a 2.0. I've rarely gone above 2.5 since then.

 

[wooster]

You didn't mention the reed strength you were using. My experience similar to yours is in another post from a few years back, In a nutshell, I was using a 3.5 reed when after an hour's or so use, my lips cramped and became numb. I made a few attempts that evening with that same reed and got the same results. My normal reed was a 2.0. I've rarely gone above 2.5 since then.

Hi. Yes I stood have said. I’ve gone back to a 1.5 and a standard Yamaha 4 size mouthpiece so it couldn’t be much gentler. I have a feeling I’m starting to strain my muscles in an attempt to play the higher notes in tune.

I tried again tonight and didn’t strain making a conscious effort to let my larynx get in on the act to get them in tune. I failed of course as I’m so out of training but I didn’t let my embouchure scrunch up.

I got my wife to video me to video me to have a look at myself and to make sure I wasn’t puffing out my cheeks either and, though they puffed out a bit, I feel probably working within acceptable limits.

Anyway no numbness or twitchiness so hopefully just need to keep an eye on it - and hope my wife will video me now and again!!

 

[wakyct]

@wooster, not to pile on the uncertainty but since you're back after a break, I wonder how's your air support? Could you be overworking your embouchure a bit if your air support is not what it was? Maybe pay special attention to exercises to bring that back as well.

 

[wooster]

@wooster, not to pile on the uncertainty but since you're back after a break, I wonder how's your air support? Could you be overworking your embouchure a bit if your air support is not what it was? Maybe pay special attention to exercises to bring that back as well.

Good point. I’m not particular fit now I’m coming up for 70 and probably will do some lung expansion type exercises. I bought two of the “Taming The Saxophone” books and they arrived yesterday. I noticed a section on that very thing. Sounds like a good use of my time