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Digital Photography Advice needed...

Jules

Formerly known as "nachoman"
Messages
4,622
I know there are plenty of photographers on this site- a bit of advice please. My wife's recently got hold of a Canon EOS camera for work purposes- first download of images onto the PC importer them as RAW images- which, by default don't seem to be viewable in either Photoshop or any of the default Windows viewer. First question- I suggested changing the camera's default format to jpeg- I was told this wasn't acceptable as it reduced the quality too much (can anyone confirm or deny?). Secondly- if stuck with RAW format, what’s the best set up for viewing and editing RAWs?
Thanks
 

Young Col

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,419
Jules
My sons use Canon EOS cameras at work for their website images. One of their staff is a part time pro photographer. I've asked them your questions.
YC
 

dave 645

Member
Messages
124
As far as I know, and I'm not a pro, the RAW images contain a lot more information and therefore need more memory space. They enable a greater deal of enhancement to be done, but to the untrained eye jpeg and RAW image will be very similar. I always use jpeg files as the memory demands are much smaller, and to me there is no visual difference. BUT I COULD BE TALKING COMPLETE RUBBISH, I read a couple of books a long time ago!
 

Gallen

Senior Member
Messages
397
RAW VS Jpeg, ah the endless debate.
For me the choice is simple - RAW. Mainly because I do alot of flash photography with gels, and want maximum control of my white balance in post.

Think of RAW as a mix in a daw, where you still have control over each track, the ability to apply EQ just to the alto track or a bit of delay on the sop track.

JPEG is like the final mixdown, a single mp3 file, compressed. Uh, no thanks.

That said, there are many professionals who understand exposure, white balance, flash and have a perfectly fine workflow with jpeg. So...

The thing about JPEG is if you like the color, great! For RAW, it presents you a blank slate; the way I setup my raw converter is to get everything neutral, so the image is very muddy and dull... until I apply the settings to get the image into what I imagined in my mind's eye. Hence, there is also the time aspect, whether one wants to go to the trouble of color grading each photo. There are presets and auto-stuff available of course.

Secondly- if stuck with RAW format, what’s the best set up for viewing and editing RAWs?

Two things, budget, and how critical is the photography? I'm a serious amateur, and my photos are targeted for print, not online viewing. I run a colour calibrated pipeline, and use a proper 8bit per channel S-IPS monitor.

My processing chain is:
DSLR -> RAW -> Bibble 5 Pro -> DDIS Qimage -> Print

My setup is
DSLR
Bibble 5 Pro
i1 Display 2 colorimeter
Argyll CMS (I run linux; substitute the manufacturer's software for OSX/Windows)
Dell 2209WA S-IPS monitor
Forgot the printer model, but it's an epson with "archival" quality inks.

Also, what is the meaning of editing to you? For me, I only adjust the image as a whole, brightness, curves, contrast, nothing local (e.g. cloning out stuff or putting a UFO into a sunset) - for me a raw processor like Bibble is perfect. For editing stuff, definitely look at Photoshop, or Photoshop Elements.

hths.
 

Nick Wyver

noisy
Subscriber
Messages
5,950
More or less wot Gallen said.

If you like a lot of farting about after taking the pics go for RAW. If you want perfectly good instant results go for jpg. You can still fiddle with colour/contrast etc. with jpgs. You just haven't got quite the degree of control.

Regarding converting Canon's own brand of RAW - didn't you get any software with the camera? You want Canon's Digital Photo Professional - it might be downloadable from their site. Can't look now, gotta go and teach someone.
 

Tenor Viol

Full of frets in North Shropshire
Subscriber
Messages
5,945
Hi
Agree with above - RAW gives a lot of control, JPEG less control and easier to handle.

If you've got a basic package such as Photoshop Elements, it could be you're missing the RAW converter for the Eos (you need a plug-in for each camera's version of RAW - there isn't a standard). Try looking for an update or download.

Otherwise, use the software that comes with the camera - that will work.

Hope that helps.
 

Young Col

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,419
Jules
I am told as follows.

You can now preview RAW images in Windows Photo Gallery and Windows Live Gallery as long as you have the RAW codec installed for your camera - EOS would be CR2.

As the others have said, if you have the expertise and need to use RAW files then you can use the software that came with your EOS camera - DPP for example, however Photoshop will let you view RAW images straight from the import. If you're having trouble with this then you may need to make sure that the codecs are installed from the EOS disk correctly and that you have an up to date version of Photoshop - after all Photoshop exists to edit RAW files!

The basic difference is that a jpeg is a compressed file (compressed by the camera) whereas a RAW file is uncompressed. If you don't need the control of white balance and other features that RAW files give you then stick to JPEG - it's not really a case of RAW is better quality than JPEG but that RAW gives you much more comprehensive post processing ability.
YC
 

old git

Tremendous Bore
Messages
5,545
Bah! Humbug!

What would Ansel Adams say about digital?

Probably, "Saves all that bloody walking."
 

jonf

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,680
Bah! Humbug!

What would Ansel Adams say about digital?

Probably, "Saves all that bloody walking."
I think Ansel Adams would have loved digitial. He was a great one (probably the greatest ever among film photographers) for image manipulation. He used up to 16"X 20" ultra large format cameras, alway did a polaroid test and printed using a specially designed and built enlargers with as many as 64 separate, individually switched light sources. Nothing even vaguely natural about his pics. That's why they were so much better than anything any 'normal' photographer could produce.
 

Gallen

Senior Member
Messages
397
Haven't shot with the eos system since 2007, just remembered about DPP:
http://www.canon-europe.com/support/software/dpp/index.asp
It should come with all dslrs.

Re: Ansel Adams - I would think he would love modern technology. There is the medium, and there is the vision. I think he, like many artists I know, would use whatever medium necessary to achieve their vision.

That said, I love slides, 6x9 trannies are killer, pity the younger generation nowadays have no idea what a properly exposed slide on a lightbox looks like. Or projected. Or even what a slide is.
 
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milandro

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,483
in order to visualize and work with RAW format your program needs a plug-in FOR THE CAMERA IN QUESTION. Essential RAW is a format as it has been shot by the camera and instead of being 8 bits it is 12 bits (and simulated 16 bits) per channel. This gives a more progressive step work possibilities when applying any operation. Besides the information is not compressed in RAW (remember it is the information as the camera shot it) and it has a lot more of info (and the files are very much bigger).
Almost anything you do you to a picture file would increase the noise which is not necessarily the case with RAW, also you have much larger control of contrast and luminosity. The same goes for colour management.

But as everything, fiddling around with things for experts needs experience and for most people all this is by and large useless , let alone confusing.
If you are into point and shoot photography , probably you also are better off with a good quality , low noise and contrast JPEG. Unless you want to work on files , create you own profiles, curves AND print your own stuff, you probably don't need this.
 

Jules

Formerly known as "nachoman"
Messages
4,622
Cheers for the information guys. Have any of you had any luck opening and manipulating .CR2 image files in Photoshop? I’ve got CS4 and Have downloaded/installed the latest Adobe “Camera Raw”- still coming up as unrecognised file format when I try to open ‘em….
 

milandro

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,483
you ned the specific plug-in for you camera if the camera is newer than your plug in it won't see it. Try the program APERTURE
 

half diminished

Senior Member
Messages
1,302
Cheers for the information guys. Have any of you had any luck opening and manipulating .CR2 image files in Photoshop? I’ve got CS4 and Have downloaded/installed the latest Adobe “Camera Raw”- still coming up as unrecognised file format when I try to open ‘em….
Jules

You may find there no compatibility between CS4 and .CR2 for your specific camera. I don't have a Canon myself but I believe it's the same for all newer models. If your camera was not around when CS4 was superseded by CS5, chances are Adobe never added this camera to the older software, just the later one. The Adobe website will tell you which version of ACR you need to work with your camera but it may be you'll need to upgrade to CS5 to get that version of ACR.

You could if you own a mac get Aperture very cheap via the app store of if you don't need the advanced features of Photoshop get PS Elements or even Lightroom but all at some cost.

Final option might be to use the standalone ACR and convert the .CR2 file to .DNG and that may work in CS4. No promises though.
 

Gallen

Senior Member
Messages
397
Jules, see DPP linked above.

EDIT: Doesn't help with the photoshop issue - I think a fair amount of people are unhappy with the way camera raw updates - however it dpp will allow you to at least view, grade and export your raws.
 
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Jules

Formerly known as "nachoman"
Messages
4,622
Its the 600- a ralatively new one, so- theoretcially- it should be ok with my version of photoshop (PC by the way)
 

Two Voices

Senior Member
Messages
1,113
Jules does your RAW images show up in the free included Canon's Digital Photo Pro (DPP)?

I know that Photoshop CS5, Camera Raw 6.4.1 and Lightroom 3 all support the EOS 600D.
 
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