M/Pieces - Ligs decent mouthpiece for beginer,£50 to spend

[flukeyluke]

Right, now ive decided im sticking to my sms sax i really could do with some help on a mouthpiece,i dont mind buying secondhand and have decided i would like to spend around £50 tops if possible,any suggestions?

would this be any good? its 6* keilwerth alto mpc.

Thanks luke

 

[kevgermany]

Try something like a Hite Premier or Clark Fobes debut.

 

[flukeyluke]

Thanks alot,i will have a search around for them now

Luke

 

[flukeyluke]

couldnt find either of the 2 you mention here in the uk,would the one i posted not be any good?

Thanks luke

 

[Pyrografix]

Hi Luke,
There are quite a few threads re: mouthpieces on the forum. Try THIS one for a start......
Much of it is down to personal choice at the end of the day, and probably best if you can try a selection before you decide what to buy.
Cheers,
Amanda

 

[kevgermany]

couldnt find either of the 2 you mention here in the uk,would the one i posted not be any good?

Thanks luke

Keilwerth make excellent saxs. I know nothing about their mouthpieces, we never hear of them or see them discussed. They're probably pretty good. Difficult to know how easy it is to play, or how well it'll suit you/your sax.

 

[Colin the Bear]

You need a mouthpiece that is easy to play and which will help you develop your embouchure and allow you to train your fingers head and ear. No point spending a fortune yet. Further down the line when you have decided where you're going and what your mouth can cope with and your heart desires , the real quest for a mouthpiece will begin, or more probably your collection will start.

Lots of people start and stay with the Yamaha.

The Rico graftonite and metalite are easy to play and have different tonal characteristics. The Bari Esprit is very accessible and again has a different sound colour.

On your budget you could afford the Bari and both Rico mouthpieces or maybe the Yamaha and one other. All of these will sell on if you can bare to part with them.

Then the search for an accompanying reed begins.

 

[TomMapfumo]

The Clark Fobes costs £36 and is available a Howarth of London. The other mouthpieces you might consider are:

1. Bari Esprit II - only costs £14 in UK (Ackerman Music, John Packer and others).
2. Windcraft Etude - costs £44.95 and is available at Dawkes.

I tried them out recently and both are quite exceptional (ignore the price).
I can lend you both the Bari Esprit and Clark Fobes to try out - no problem, and the Windcraft is available from Dawkes on a trial basis also.

Won't get better under £100!
Kind regards
Tom

 

[Zeus]

I was in your very own shoes some months ago, still am, awaiting for another MPC also.

My story goes like this, i thought that the Yamaha 4C MPC that came with the sax, needed upgrade, i acknowledged the advices like "develop your embouchure first" and said yea right, ok, i will, and then i rushed and bought another MPC, a Rico Royal A55, then a Bari Esprit II, and a Selmer S80 C**.

Guess what....after some months because of work and family and relocating that i couldn't touch the sax at all, when i took back in my hands, i couldn't blow in any one of these MPCs....except in the original one 4C...i was dazzled.

Bottomline....
1) Do upgrade, and test, but choose MPCs, in a stepwise fashion, some inches wider than the starter one, which is around 65-67 i think inches tip opening( http://sax.co.uk/altotipopening.html )
2) Check that your upgrade MPC, has a Chamber size, somewhat bigger than the starter one you have, not a way bigger one, because you will also get dissapointed, as i have.

This way, maybe wrong way, idk, i have decided to upgrade MPCs, so when i put them in a case one next to the other, i know, which one has the smallest tip opening, or the smallest chamber size, and test accordingly which suits me best. If you get let's say 3-4 different brands with the same tip opening, before you know you really can blow through it, you would only fall into the same situation i was in, a chaotic, disorganized |MPCs buying frenzy without direction.

So buy but buy step by step
There also so many parameters for a MPC, most members here are way more knowledgeable to explain, i as an absolute beginner chose these two, for starters, keep my story not as a guide, but as an example to avoid, getting into a forest without tracks to get out.

 

[flukeyluke]

Thanks EVERYONE,think im going to pick up a rico today from my local music shop and think im also going to order either the bari or a yamaha 4c online thanks again.

Luke

 

[TomMapfumo]

The Rico Royal mouthpieces come in 3,5 & 7 tip openings (0.070", 0.080" and 0.090") and A, B & C chamber sizes (Large, Medium and Small). If you are a beginner then the 3 tip opening will probably be large enough, and B is probably the better size chamber.
As Zeus says the better starting size is around 0.060"+ (Yamaha 4C is 0.063" & Bari, Fobes and Windcraft are 0.065")

Good luck when choosing reeds & ligature!

 

[TomMapfumo]

Of interest regarding Keilwerth mouthpieces: http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?78501-Keilwerth-Jazz-Mpc . So they are made by ESM http://www.esm-mouthpiece.de/index.php?id=5&lang=english which is one of the mouthpieces played by Trimmy on the forum.

So may not be that bad.

 

[flukeyluke]

Thanks,i ended up buying a rico graftonite b5 as it was the only size they had in stock...it does sound better but im finding it a tad harder to play...i seem to be getting alot more baby elephant noises lol if you know what i mean..like im going through my scale and it goes note note baby squeeling elephant note

Like i said it does sound better in the higher octive but i dont seem to play it so clean.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Try some different reeds. Makes and strengths. Sounds like what you're using could be to hard.

 

[flukeyluke]

dont think its the reed but i might be wrong lol ive tried rico royal size 2 and 1.5.....i seem to get the squeeky baby elephant noises on both lol i am a begginner though so most of it if not all IS prob down to me although i had less squeeks with the standered mpc but it just dosnt sound as nice as this rico one.

 

[kevgermany]

Of interest regarding Keilwerth mouthpieces: http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?78501-Keilwerth-Jazz-Mpc . So they are made by ESM http://www.esm-mouthpiece.de/index.php?id=5&lang=english which is one of the mouthpieces played by Trimmy on the forum.

So may not be that bad.

ESM is Schreiber - who also make clarinets. Their mouthpieces are good, well thought of here, but I don't know if the one for Keilwerth is different. I suspect it might be.

 

[flukeyluke]

just had another little blow on my horn (sounds a bit funny that lol) and seemed alot better this time,not as many elephants i can tell quite a big difference in sound between this rico and the standered,the rico is defo louder with a nicer tone now coming from my sax,think it will just take a bit of time to adjust but overall im happy.

 

[TomMapfumo]

The B5 is 0.080" - which is a very large tip opening for a beginner. See the chart below: http://www.jodyjazz.com/facings.altosax.html where 0.080" is included in the orange section - meaning "recommended for professionals and advanced students". It generally does need a softer reed but also will challenge your embouchure which is what helps to bend the reed to fit the steeper mouthpiece facing curve and limit any air leakage.

I have been playing the alto sax for 7 years and most of my mouthpieces are between 0.076" and 0.080", which is comfortable with 2 1/2 strength reeds. Beginners are better with mouthpieces below 0.070" IMHO - hence all the recommendations made above.

To reduce squeaks make sure you fully immerse the reed in water (with some alcohol) for a few minutes, and also make sure that your embouchure does not leak air. A moist reed is easier to bend.

I agree that the Rico should sound better than the standard mouthpiece, but just has too large a tip for you to play well. In a year or so's time it should be different.

 

[jonf]

To be honest, I'm not all that sure I agree with some of what Tom says above. I've never bought the idea that beginners have to start on a narrow tip opening mouthpiece - I certainly didn't when I started on tenor as a callow youth 32 years ago. OK, I would say that a 0.80 mouthpiece is a slightly larger tip opning than would normally be recommended for a beginner, but I just don't accept that it's of a dimension only fit for pros and advanced students. There are so many more factors than tip opening alone in determining how easy a mouthpiece is to play.

What I'd suggest you do is set a target time, say two or three weeks time, and play the sax with your new mouthpiece for at least 20 minutes a day between now and then. Make sure you use a pretty soft reed. If you're still struggling at that time, order a B3 from t'internet. You can get them for about 18 quid. However, I think you'll adapt OK to the B5. The most important thing is just to play the sax. As much as you can. Enjoy it, sax playing's great.

 

[flukeyluke]

The B5 is 0.080" - which is a very large tip opening for a beginner. See the chart below: http://www.jodyjazz.com/facings.altosax.html where 0.080" is included in the orange section - meaning "recommended for professionals and advanced students". It generally does need a softer reed but also will challenge your embouchure which is what helps to bend the reed to fit the steeper mouthpiece facing curve and limit any air leakage.

I have been playing the alto sax for 7 years and most of my mouthpieces are between 0.076" and 0.080", which is comfortable with 2 1/2 strength reeds. Beginners are better with mouthpieces below 0.070" IMHO - hence all the recommendations made above.

To reduce squeaks make sure you fully immerse the reed in water (with some alcohol) for a few minutes, and also make sure that your embouchure does not leak air. A moist reed is easier to bend.

I agree that the Rico should sound better than the standard mouthpiece, but just has too large a tip for you to play well. In a year or so's time it should be different.

Oh that will explain it then lol thanks alot for the info,i really love the tone that my sax is producing now and the second practice i had was much much better

Think i will keep this mouthpiece but order a yamaha 4c or something similar as well,do you have any recomendations on reeds? should i stick to the ricos for now as a begginer or is there something softer?

Thanks again

Luke