Crook Issues

[Philsaxophone]

Hi,
I have posted an issue on the Sax on the web which is about a problem I found on the crook of a MKVI Tenor

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?147036-A-humbling-lesson-well-learnt

Well, this might have a happy ending after all.

As some of you pointed out, selling a MKVI is not to be done lightly so I blindfolded the wife and played both saxes with an identical mouthpiece / reed combination and both slow mellow and fast bright songs

Which did she like the best--the Mauriat--so it wouldnt have been such a major problem telling her I was going to sell her birthday present

When I asked her why she prefered the Mauriat she said it was obvious that I was struggling a bit to play the MKVI especially the low notes which tended to burble and that the upper register seemed out of tune

No suprises there then as thats what I thought too

However when she helped me pack the MKVI away she noticed something that I had not noticed in the year I had been playing it

I had always looked for problems with the keywork, pads etc but she noticed an issue with the crook

At the end where the mouthpiece fits the whole was not symetrical--at one point the edge was extremely thin whereas the rest of the hole was the same thichness all round--the thin part was about a quarter of the thickness of the rest

When I looked closley I saw that the problem only went for about a quarter of an inch down the tube and then everything was OK--it seemed that the area of the fault curved slightly outwards towards the rim

The thin part was exactly at the bottom of the hole--opposite site to the octave key--- which I assumed is where the join is when it was manufactured

Was this a manufacturing fault or some sort of dodgy repair because I also noticed a slight black line where the metal thinned like you might get if some metal had been added

So what to do--would it make a difference??

What I did was get a small pencil and wrap some very fine emery paper round it and very gently curver the hole out from about a quater inch in the tube to try to replicate the area where it was thin

Now, I havent done it anywhere near as much as the thin area as I was too scared to but I now have just the last quater inch with a slight curve that matches the one in the faulty area

I'm sure some of you will tell me I've wrecked the horn and killed the resale value but the money was never the point

Mouthpiece on and see what happens--unbelievable difference!!!

Bottom notes pop out as clear as anything and its in tune in the uppper octave

I'm not going to do any more work on it to match with the very thin part unless a tech out there tells me its the right thing to do

I now have a wonderfull sounding MKVI--super sultry when played softly and still mellow when pushed

How can such a little thing make such a difference??

Any tech with an answer???



I just wondered if anyone else had experienced the problem and what your thoughts are on whether to do a better fix

 

[Saxlicker]

Hi Phil,
Very interesting.

The Mauriats have an excellent reputation so if it was easier to play than the 6, it would be a horn many can live with and enjoy every day as many do.

Regarding the neck adjustment you have made on the 6. It's not surprising that it's made such a difference. The neck is the most important part of any horn past the the mouthpiece.
I'm glad it has turned out positive. I suspect it could have gone either way.
If it was me, I would visit a couple of stores (howarths maybe?) that have mkvi's and compare them back to back. Don't get me wrong, they will be different in sound and feel depending largely on their age and set up. But I have tried many and there is a certain commonality as you'd expect. So by doing so, any issue with yours (due to the neck or otherwise) would probably stand out and you'll have had a whole lot of fun in the process :shocked:

 

[johnboy]

I bet we're all rushing to look at our necks now (my wife says she's going to wring mine, if I don't hurry and get in the shower).

(Hi Trev).

 

[Pete Thomas]

I'm glad it has turned out positive. I suspect it could have gone either way.

That's what I think too, my answer on SOTW was along those lines.

It would be ineteresting to try a mauriat neck on the MKVI. The 66 neck or Magnum neck should fit.

 

[Nick Wyver]

I really don't know why anyone persists with that pile of old French tat.

 

[Philsaxophone]

HI Guys

Tx for your comments

I suppose its obvious that anything at the beginning of the air column is bound to make a big difference I just never thought to look there for any problems.

I think I'm going to let the old adage " if it aint broke dont fix it" come into play and not do any more mucking about as I am now happy with the sound.

The other thing I noticed is that when I did the pencil / emery paper exercise it also smoothed out quite a few tiny humps and bumps in the crook bore.

I assume from looking at the crook on the Mauriat and the one on my wife's Alto that the crook bore has to be as smooth as possible so as not to create eddy's in the air column

BTW Can anyone tell me why the MKVI has a ring at the end of the crook that the cork butts up to rather than just a plain ending on other sax's I've played.

 

[johnboy]

'cos we like 'em, and for me it's also nostalgia.

 

[Philsaxophone]

Re Pete's comment--I have tried the Mauriat crook ( Super VI) on the MKVI and it's less smooth sounding, also not easy to tune throughout the range

The MKVI crook on the Mauriat 66R sounds muffled especially with the Brilhart Tonalin which has a small tip opening --0.75

Mind you I am trying for a soft mellow tone so it might be different if I wanted lots of volume

 

[Philsaxophone]

Picture



Hopefully I've managed to attach a picture of the fault on the crook

As you can see it thins a lot on the rim but that fault only seems to go down the tube about 1/4 inch and then its OK

I have slightly curved out the rest of the rim to match it a little bit and thats what has given the improvement in tone and playability

Does anyone think this is a manufacturing fault or a dodgy repair

Phil

 

[johnboy]

It is impossible to tell, but I would have thought the latter.
Whoever did it, certainly didn't think about using other methods, like adding material rather than removing it!

 

[kevgermany]

It's hard to tell, except say that the flange isn't even all the way around. My guess would be that it was ade that way.

 

[johnboy]

Humm, for it to be made like it, you would have the coincidence of a thin walled tube (thin for a distance of 0.25" into the tube) and thinned down flange coming together at assembly. Then you would have to position both thinned down sections together to obtain these results. I think this is highly unlikely. Most likely is that there was damage to the tube/flange area and a hasty repair carried out. Impossible to tell if it was at manufacture or later (my money would be on later).