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Saxophones Conn 7M - G#/C# linkage "discovered"

DavidUK

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Took my 7M for a set up last month and collected it today...

Paul Carrington had never worked on one before and pointed out the extra C# linkage. He said the C# was easier to play with the linkage removed and couldn't see much point in it being connected. I tried the C# with the linkage in place and it did seem a little "mushy" to play. Here's a photo with linkage removed (not my horn - I've yet to take it out of the case at home - busy!)...



Tonight, surfing for info, I found this on SOTW: 1970 Conn 7M Alto Review - Page 2 (I posted a similar question after soybean's post - and the photo is his/hers).

Identical findings from their tech too it seems.

So, what is the point of the G#/C# linkage on some older horns and why don't today's models feature this, whether switchable or removable?
Am I missing a trick if I take it off for easier fingering of C# or is that the best thing to do anyhow?

I'm guessing @JayeNM and @jbtsax will likely have the answers for me, being US made? Oh, and not forgetting @Stephen Howard

Oh... and if I'm to take it off, what do I need to do? I'm fairly sure it's self explanatory but better to be safe...

Thanks for any info.
 
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DavidUK

DavidUK

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I should have added...

OR... is there a way to set the linkage so that it makes no discernible difference to how C# feels when pressed? Some tech trick learned through experience perhaps? I think this unlikely as when connected C# has more to do and so extra pressure is inevitable. But perhaps there's a smoother feeling way. If so, please explain as I have to go back to Paul to collect my SDA in a few weeks and can discuss with him. He'll be interested for when he comes across another 7M... in a few decades time perhaps.
 

jbtsax

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I have no idea what this "extra C# linkage" is or does. @JayeNM knows more about vintage makes and models than I do, so he may have an answer. I'm as curious as you are.
 

JayeNM

Formerly JayePDX
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1,190
I remember that little bugger, yeah I just always kept it engaged although I could see where the action would improve if disengaged. As soybean notes on the other thread, it is a removable piece, yes ?
 

nigeld

I don't need another mouthpiece; but . . .
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So, what is the point of the G#/C# linkage on some older horns and why don't today's models feature this, whether switchable or removable?
Am I missing a trick if I take it off for easier fingering of C# or is that the best thing to do anyhow?
The G#/C# linkage means that if you hold the C# key down, then the G# goes down as well. So you can use the C# key to play G#. This can be very useful in keys with 3 sharps or more. It seems to be particularly useful on the bari - I do a lot of G# to C# jumps in big band music without moving my finger.

As far as I know, all modern saxophones have this linkage built-in. Pressing down any of the bell keys will depress the G#. Old saxophones mostly don't because it makes the bell keys harder to press down. (I'm guessing that the change occurred with the Selmer Balanced Action.) A few models have a mechanism which makes the linkage optional.
 

jbtsax

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It was the word "linkage" that confused me. I am familiar with the "tab" or "table" that extends from the underside of the G# touch that allows the pressing of the B or C# to also engage the G#.
This photo shows a very simple one I added to a Conn 6M at a customer's request. The addition was "soft soldered" so it can be easily removed if no longer wanted.

1579704891500.jpeg
 
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DavidUK

DavidUK

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4,414
The G#/C# linkage means that if you hold the C# key down, then the G# goes down as well. So you can use the C# key to play G#. This can be very useful in keys with 3 sharps or more. It seems to be particularly useful on the bari - I do a lot of G# to C# jumps in big band music without moving my finger.

As far as I know, all modern saxophones have this linkage built-in. Pressing down any of the bell keys will depress the G#. Old saxophones mostly don't because it makes the bell keys harder to press down. (I'm guessing that the change occurred with the Selmer Balanced Action.) A few models have a mechanism which makes the linkage optional.
Ah, OK, so some older horns had this method to depress G# with just the C# key but later on someone thought it a better idea if all of the bell keys did this.

I guess that explains why the l/h pinky table mechanism is such a mountainous affair these days?
 

JayeNM

Formerly JayePDX
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1,190
I guess that explains why the l/h pinky table mechanism is such a mountainous affair these days?
Yup, too mountainous for me, most of the time, really. Although I never found the 7M table to be unfreindly even with the linkage on.

Apropos of nothing in particular, here is the polar opposite of a complex table: a 3-touch pinky table (old Holton soprano). The C# and G# are actually a single l-shaped touchpiece:
HoltonTable1.jpg
 

jbtsax

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That's a well worn sling ring....with the wear in the wrong place
"Sling ring" :) Now that's a name I haven't heard before. I checked the repair ticket and I did not unsolder it and turn it 180° like I often do. Perhaps the customer chose not to. I can't remember.
 

jbtsax

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Not sure what the official name is...
On this side of the pond we call it a "strap ring". I like your term better. It reminds me of the somewhat derogatory expression "your thing in a sling".
 

saxyjt

I have saxophone withdrawal symptoms
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On this side of the pond we call it a "strap ring". I like your term better. It reminds me of the somewhat derogatory expression "your thing in a sling".
About that, I need to ask, I have the feeling that most of my horns are not properly balanced. They should have the 'Slingystuff' moved up for me. Is there a trick to achieve the same without a hardware change?

Of course I could add some weights into the bell! But I doubt it's the best way to deal with it...
 

Ivan

Undecided
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About that, I need to ask, I have the feeling that most of my horns are not properly balanced. They should have the 'Slingystuff' moved up for me. Is there a trick to achieve the same without a hardware change?

Of course I could add some weights into the bell! But I doubt it's the best way to deal with it...
I have a C Melody that tried to knock my teeth out if I let it hang on the sling

Bryce, ace Edinburgh tech, resoldered the sling ring to the fulcrum of the sax and now I don't have to wear a protective headgear
 

jbtsax

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About that, I need to ask, I have the feeling that most of my horns are not properly balanced. They should have the 'Slingystuff' moved up for me. Is there a trick to achieve the same without a hardware change?

Of course I could add some weights into the bell! But I doubt it's the best way to deal with it...
I have wondered about fabricating an "attachment" to the existing ring that would bring it a bit higher---something similar to this, but not as bulky.


neckstrap ring adjuster (640x360).jpg
 
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