Conn 10M V 16M

[Jamesmac]

@ Conn 10M/16M players/repairers
Any thoughts on the 1950s 16M
Since the production didn't move to Mexico till 1960 any thoughts on these possibly often unfairly maligned Conns.
I have heard that the pre- Nogales Shooting Star 16M tenor has the same body as the more favoured 10M.

 

[thomsax]

I've heard that Shotting Star 16M were on the 10M from the early 30's. Not the Artist models. I'm not sure about this. There is a big difference between an early 10M compared to the Artist models c 35 - 47/48. I think they continued to make the 10 M in the 60's as well. And maybe some were made in Elkhart?

One of my saxheros, Noble Thin Man" Watts blew a Conn Shooting Star. I think he sounded great!?

 

[majordennis]

My first tenor was a 1955 16M, it looked rough but it played very nicely, I used a Selmer Soloist on it and liked it a lot. When I improved a bit and joined concert band I splashed out on a Selmer Mk VII and thought it a definite improvement (other members of the band commented favourably as well) but it wasn't quite what I was looking for.
After a few more changes last year I bought a 1964 10M, it's hard to compare and the 16M was a long time ago and early in my saxophone experience but if I had to compare I would say IMHO the 16M has a marginally "thinner" sound and the ergos are not as good as the 10M (for me the most comfortable I have played).
In summary the early 16M's and PanAms are super value for money as are the late 10M's which according to a reliable source were all made in Elkhart.

 

[Jamesmac]

My first tenor was a 1955 16M, it looked rough but it played very nicely, I used a Selmer Soloist on it and liked it a lot. When I improved a bit and joined concert band I splashed out on a Selmer Mk VII and thought it a definite improvement (other members of the band commented favourably as well) but it wasn't quite what I was looking for.
After a few more changes last year I bought a 1964 10M, it's hard to compare and the 16M was a long time ago and early in my saxophone experience but if I had to compare I would say IMHO the 16M has a marginally "thinner" sound and the ergos are not as good as the 10M (for me the most comfortable I have played).
In summary the early 16M's and PanAms are super value for money as are the late 10M's which according to a reliable source were all made in Elkhart.

Thanks for your insight Major, I saw a 1958 16m go for £123 the other day on eBay and I heard somewhere that they have the same body as the 10m. So thanks for that. I just bought a 10M as you know, which will be having the works ( full overhaul ) when i finaly get from the US. I spoke to a few techs and Steve Crow also includes some slight keywork modifications which seem interesting.

 

[majordennis]

I met Steve late last year, very knowledgeable and nice bloke as well, showed me a Conn he was working on, very nice work.

 

[Jamesmac]

I met Steve late last year, very knowledgeable and nice bloke as well, showed me a Conn he was working on, very nice work.

These are the modifications that Steve does. Probably only practical when the horn needs an overhaul



The conn
Left hand thumb carriage moved down then back thumb rest fitted.
Sling hook moved down.
Right hand thumb rest moved up.
Crook height altered.
Eb/C right hand touch pieces moved down.
Pearls replaced with selmer series ll pearls.
Aux Eb key, guard and touch removed.
F natural pearl extension removed.
G# trill and pillars removed.
G# touch piece lengthened.
G natural pearl arm extended.
Front f pearl arm extended.
G# regulation screw fitted.

 

[Throatnote]

Hi James
no doubt about Steves abilities.
would you mind telling what would an approximate figure for the above mods and the overhaul of course,
cheers

 

[Jamesmac]

Hi James
no doubt about Steves abilities.
would you mind telling what would an approximate figure for the above mods and the overhaul of course,
cheers

Hi Throatnote...This is the email i recieved from Steve,

Hi Jim
Thanks again for your email.
The finish is hard to tell on the photos but I am pretty sure I can do something with it.
The full conversion is £900
But some people just have part conversion around £600.
When these horns are converted you can't tell where they have had work done, I use the same soldering ways conn would have used. Don't get me wrong they don't feel like a Yamaha but they do feel very nice.
I will have a look at cafe saxophone.
All the best
Steve

 

[Ivan]

These are the modifications that Steve does. Probably only practical when the horn needs an overhaul



The conn
Left hand thumb carriage moved down then back thumb rest fitted.
Sling hook moved down.
Right hand thumb rest moved up.
Crook height altered.
Eb/C right hand touch pieces moved down.
Pearls replaced with selmer series ll pearls.
Aux Eb key, guard and touch removed.
F natural pearl extension removed.
G# trill and pillars removed.
G# touch piece lengthened.
G natural pearl arm extended.
Front f pearl arm extended.
G# regulation screw fitted.

If the Conn plays better with all these mods wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude it's not a particularly good sax?

 

[ProfJames]

Agree with Ivan. For the price of the sax plus the mods - £900 - I would buy a Martin Comm II

 

[Chris]

It's not that it is a bad sax, just it can be better see read and listen here

http://www.stevecrow.co.uk/projects.htm

Chris..

 

[Jamesmac]

Agree with Ivan. For the price of the sax plus the mods - £900 - I would buy a Martin Comm II

Nobody is having there arm twisted to have any modifications, its just another option The cost of the modifications includes a complete overhaul, at 400, which suits some players. because they for one think, that if you want a sax with more modern keywork, then go and buy a modern horn. its up to the individual. As steve says some players just go for the partial mods.
and Some very prominent players have gone for the full Monty,
Theres one thing for sure that the Conn 10M tenor is a very desirable horn and sounds great in the hands of an experienced player, and everybody can have an opinion, but its what you can do with your instrument thats important. So i will continue to listen to the guys that can do it, and decide what suits me.


Chris Byars playing a Conn 10M


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zBa-_hcfqo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[ProfJames]

And quite rightly so! Horses for courses. I must admit that what he does looks very impressive and the horns sound very good.

 

[rhysonsax]

Steve Crow did an absolutely fabulous job on mods for my Conn 12M bari. He constructed a completely new front F (there wasn't one on the horn) that matches the original keywork well, moved the bis Bb and added a modern style large LH thumb button. And then he had the new keywork silver plated to match the original.

He was also very enthusiastic and good to talk to.

Rhys

 

[Jamesmac]

If the Conn plays better with all these mods wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude it's not a particularly good sax?

I suppose there has got to be one