Cleaning a Buescher True Tone alto

33
Hi, I just purchased a 1929 Buescher True Tone Alto (250xxx) off of Ebay.

It's in good condition, the lacquer is almost intact and it actually still plays across the the entire range of the horn with what are probably original pads. It looks like it's been in a closet for decades - the key system is totally gunked up with dirt causing a treacle-like action, and there is also a good deal of tarnish as well as verdigris or mold in the bell. The Bb key rod also looks slightly bent.

I think it has potential so I'd like to get it overhauled and back into working order.

To save money and for the sake of curiosity, I'm considering disassembling, cleaning and lubricating it myself before handing it over to a tech for proper adjustment, repadding, tone-hole levelling etc. I was going to follow a procedure like this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/47756829@N03/sets/72157626931916866/ minus the repadding. Also some ideas here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/47756829@N03/sets/72157626931916866/

Do you think this practical?
What would be a reasonable price for a full overhaul?
Any other general advice?

Thanks
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Big job, but doable. Make sure you really understand the mechanism before starting, and that you have the right tools. Stephen Howard's Haynes sax manual is a must. And rather than try and repeat it, I suggest you get a copy before going further.
 
Like Kev says its a big job but very doable and if your confident it's very interesting and informative, and while your stripping it down you will become aware of most of its other problems as you go through it, not sure if it will save you money as far as when you have it overhauled, I once did it before having a tenor sax overhauled and it cost me £400,but it was all quality black Roo pads and resonaters, I gave it to him as a box of stripped and polished bits in a sax case, I suppose if you do that a tech might be worried that you have lost some of the parts, good luck .....John
 
Thanks for the advice. Hmm, I had the notion that the cleaning would add a lot of man-hours to the bill but I hadn't considered that cleaning is also for "diagnosing" the sax's various ailments. That, and I'm probably underestimating the issues that will arise once I get started on the cleaning.

I asked Matt Stohrer (youtube channel, he repairs vintage saxes) what he thought and he said exactly the same as both of you.

I'm going to bring it in for a quote - my local sax shop has a basic price of £490 for overhauls (though it'll vary). The horn cost me £495 so that brings the total to about £1000. More than the resale value but worth it IMO to have a playable True Tone
 
Thanks for the advice. Hmm, I had the notion that the cleaning would add a lot of man-hours to the bill but I hadn't considered that cleaning is also for "diagnosing" the sax's various ailments. That, and I'm probably underestimating the issues that will arise once I get started on the cleaning.

I asked Matt Stohrer (youtube channel, he repairs vintage saxes) what he thought and he said exactly the same as both of you.

I'm going to bring it in for a quote - my local sax shop has a basic price of £490 for overhauls (though it'll vary). The horn cost me £495 so that brings the total to about £1000. More than the resale value but worth it IMO to have a playable True Tone

Well all I can say is if you have Matt Stohrer in your corner you can't go far wrong he obviously knows his stuff, and as you have said yourself it's not always about the cost is it ....John
 
Here's a photo for the curious.
 

Attachments

  • 20141206_213647.jpg
    20141206_213647.jpg
    62.4 KB · : 285
There might be another option, if you can find a tech willing to work with you. That is you take the sax to the tech first who disassembles the instrument and removes the springs doing the requisite "diagnostics" along the way. Then the tech can "dip" the body and parts in a tarnish removing liquid to remove most of the tarnish. That gets the cosmetics about 50% of the way to a new finish. Then the tech gives the body and keys back to you to do the "grunt work" of hand polishing the body and keys with instructions on how to do so.

I did a restoration on an old Conn alto for a high school student who said he was interested in doing the polishing himself. I took $200 off the price of the overhaul and taught him how to do it and what materials and products to use. It worked out very well for both of us and he ended up with a beautifully restored vintage sax. At the end I even taught him how to do brush silverplating on the few areas where the plating had worn off.
 
Here's a photo for the curious.

Looks just like mine, even the case is identical. Nice saxes with a very sweet tone, and OK to play if you have small hands (I don't).

I personally wouldn't spend a total of a grand on a TT, even though I really like them (got a sop as well). You might find (and the technicians will probably hate this as a suggestion) that the majority of the gunge slowing up the action is at each end of the rods, and is relatively easy to clean off and replace with fresh oil. I did this with an old Conn a couple of years ago and it sharpened up the action no end. Didn't cost anything, either. It felt a bit like flossing a saxophone.
 
Jonf, I tried what you suggested and cleaned some the joints at the ends of the rods (with some white cotton string) and it has actually made a difference. Not quite yanigasawa level playability yet but hey.

jbtsax good idea on the half-half self/repairer cleaning.

Kind of regretting I blew £500 which I could have put it towards a modern horn, given the priority is to focus on my chops. The true tone just looks so great though. Ah well, sax.co.uk do credit I believe...
 
Jonf, I tried what you suggested and cleaned some the joints at the ends of the rods (with some white cotton string) and it has actually made a difference. Not quite yanigasawa level playability yet but hey.

jbtsax good idea on the half-half self/repairer cleaning.

Kind of regretting I blew £500 which I could have put it towards a modern horn, given the priority is to focus on my chops. The true tone just looks so great though. Ah well, sax.co.uk do credit I believe...

If you can get it playing nicely without spending another half a grand I don't think you'll have anything to regret. They are very sweet sounding horns, and contrary to what some people say, can also do bright modern sound with a modern mouthpiece. Mine responds very well with a Yanagisawa metal.

I'd suggest you try selectively cleaning the worst of the gunk, then re-lubricating with some light gear oil or key oil. As long as the springs haven't died it should free up the action.
 
It does look like silver plate, and minimal tarnish.

Taking it apart and putting it back together again, lighter fuel naphtha by pipe cleaner to tubes and by lint free cloth to rods, lubing on reassembly, is a great instructive exercise in the mechanics of a sax.

But if you are going to get the pads done, the tech would be doing that anyway. The cleaning looks like is it only a wipe with a silver cleaning cloth, again quick for the tech once disassembled.

So take it apart for your own amusement and instruction, but with most techs I suspect that if you ask how much more would it cost to clean and lube the action and a light rub to clean the metalwork during a repad, rather than just repad it, most will give you an offended look as you assume they wouldn't do that anyway.

Perhaps I'm wrong...

Chris
 
Thanks for the advice everyone 🙂

Once I get a backup horn (come pay day...) I will put it in for repadding.

Spent a couple of hours playing today, the horn has a very sweet tone and plays classical stuff very beautifully. The notes above high A play slightly sharp but it's not really a problem as it is very easy to pitch bend on this sax.

For some reason certain notes are very prone to note-splitting, I wonder if this is due to the particular design of the instrument - the right partials just don't "click" on certain notes and have to be forcefully supported with embouchure+diaphram, yet others are incredibly easy to play, including some altisimo ones.

G# key is very "heavy" to press, is this normal with the True Tones?
 
Heavy G# is probably partly design and partly set up. Cork grease under the key, or ptfe tape on the sliding bits under the key helps. Spring tweaking also, but be careful cos the key has a couple of springs that need to be in balance.

Note splitting is probably leaks, but also may be a case of needing breath support.
 
So in the end I decided to get the horn properly overhauled, cleaning and all (I was looking forward to cleaning it but the tech says it's included in the price anyway). This brings the total spent (horn+repair) to about a grand but when all is said and done it's actually pretty reasonable for what will be a pro-level horn. And incidentally, the market value atm in the UK for renovated true tones seems to be around £950-1200 anyway.

The perennial issue of snap-on pads came up and the tech's advice was to have them removed. I'm inclined to agree with him given the stuff I've read online about true tones with normal pads being easier to play, as well as other advantages like the reduced cost and ease of future repads. I know this is a bit of a sticking point on various forums as regards maintaining the "collectability" value but he argued that the snap on system was flawed in the first place and I'd be better off without it if my main concern was playing the instrument over keeping its value (if I wanted he'd leave them on but apparently he'd had a previous customer who'd insisted they stay and ended up returning a year later to have them removed).

Also, I was thinking maybe he could fit larger resonators on it?

I will post a photo/video when it's done 🙂
 
Hmm, a couple of comments as a TT owner of both alto and sop. Snaps or conventional pads will not of themselves make the sax any easier to play. All depends on whether they've been installed well. Well installed conventional pads will play easier than knackered snaps, and vice versa. Conventional pads will definitely reduce the cost of future repads, though.

Paying a grand to get a horn you're happy with is indeed pretty reasonable, but I think you're being very optimistic about current retail values of restored TTs. More like £650-£750. There is a lovely one at Brittens in Tunbridge Wells, beautiful work on the resto, but it's been in there unsold at (I think) £650 for two years.
 
Hmm, a couple of comments as a TT owner of both alto and sop. Snaps or conventional pads will not of themselves make the sax any easier to play. All depends on whether they've been installed well. Well installed conventional pads will play easier than knackered snaps, and vice versa. Conventional pads will definitely reduce the cost of future repads, though.

Paying a grand to get a horn you're happy with is indeed pretty reasonable, but I think you're being very optimistic about current retail values of restored TTs. More like £650-£750. There is a lovely one at Brittens in Tunbridge Wells, beautiful work on the resto, but it's been in there unsold at (I think) £650 for two years.

heh, yes, I was a bit off the mark
 

Similar threads... or are they? Maybe not but they could be worth reading anyway 😀

Members' Blogs

Trending content

Forum statistics

Topics
29,580
Messages
512,835
Members
8,735
Latest member
Idelone
Back
Top Bottom