Tone Choosing a saxophone neck

[jbtsax]

I just stumbled across this interesting video by Timothy McAllister from which I learned several new things and I wanted to share it with my friends at the Cafe.

 

[Halfers]

What an amazing sound he produces! It's a shame the recording on the video was a bit dodgy on the top end, with a bit of distortion.

I'm surprised,even if just from a commercial aspect, Sax makers don't make more of the 'neck as an upgrade' route. I'm sure, at the highest level, the top pros will get a pick of necks to choose from, but for everyday hobbyists, a neck upgrade doesn't really seem to be pitched as a reasonably cost effective way to get more out of your horn, in the way a mouthpiece upgrade is.

Just imagine how easy it would be for Sax shops to confuse people like me into getting the latest neck upgrade to super power my playing! Maybe they do, but I don't seem to come across many players on here either upgrading or thinking of upgrading a neck.

 

[nigeld]

What an amazing sound he produces! It's a shame the recording on the video was a bit dodgy on the top end, with a bit of distortion.

I'm surprised,even if just from a commercial aspect, Sax makers don't make more of the 'neck as an upgrade' route. I'm sure, at the highest level, the top pros will get a pick of necks to choose from, but for everyday hobbyists, a neck upgrade doesn't really seem to be pitched as a reasonably cost effective way to get more out of your horn, in the way a mouthpiece upgrade is.

Just imagine how easy it would be for Sax shops to confuse people like me into getting the latest neck upgrade to super power my playing! Maybe they do, but I don't seem to come across many players on here either upgrading or thinking of upgrading a neck.

I agree. The cheapest way to upgrade a bassoon is to get a new neck, and when I got my first bassoon, my teacher spent far more time helping me to find the right neck than the right bassoon. Howarths have trays full of new and second-hand bassoon necks.
So why does this not happen with saxophones?

 

[jbtsax]

I agree. The cheapest way to upgrade a bassoon is to get a new neck, and when I got my first bassoon, my teacher spent far more time helping me to find the right neck than the right bassoon. Howarths have trays full of new and second-hand bassoon necks.
So why does this not happen with saxophones?

On this side of the pond they are called "bocals". I agree that they are essential to a good playing instrument perhaps even more so than saxophone necks. At the present time Yamaha seems to be leading the way, offering neck upgrades for their professional models. I have a customer who has me order the V1 necks for both his alto and tenor and then has me fit them to work on his YAS-23, and YTS-23 saxes. He swears the new necks "open up the sound" and make them play much better. Someday I will have to try it myself.

 

[Phil]

Ive never tried a neck as an upgrade. On good horns Ive tried necks as a different option. It was interesting and I liked some of them. However, in the end I went back to my stock neck. Its a bigger rabbit hole than trying mouthpieces. Its an expensive and cumbersome process as it almost always requires a tech for proper fitting. Ive found more changes with mouthpieces.

I dont mean to suggest there are not differences...but in the end it wasnt that big of a deal. On the other hand...a better neck on a lesser quality horn just might yield useful results.

 

[nigeld]

On the other hand...a better neck on a lesser quality horn just might yield useful results.

I once tried putting a Yanagisawa neck on a cheap Taiwanese alto.
It fitted fine, but it didn't cause any noticeable improvement in tone.

Someday I would like to try a YBS-62 neck on my YBS-32.

 

[saxyjt]

Someday I would like to try a YBS-62 neck on my YBS-32.

I would imagine that the difference between the two is minimal. These baritone necks are short and simple. No octave mecs or anything.

 

[Phil]

I would also imagine alto necks being much the same. There are more variables to alter in a tenor crook.

 

[rhysonsax]

I have a Selmer neck from the early 1980s with the Variospec feature. It was designed by Ernest Ferron and has a "variateur d'impedance" which is the sticking out adjustable cylinder thing on the front of the alto neck.

Fun to play with but quite what it does I don't know.

I don't think that Selmer offered it for long.

Rhys

 

[saxyjt]

I don't think that Selmer offered it for long.

If if was really useful, they would've kept it.

 

[Thierry]

For a bassoon changing the neck may be more important than on a saxophone as there's no mouthpiece, only a double reed. For a saxophone, I'd agree with Phil: the closer to your airways the better and for a saxophone, mouthpiece + reed are at exactly the same distance from the airflow, leveraging on each other's quality to produce sound.

 

[Jazzaferri]

@jbtsax great find thanks for posting.

When I bought my Keilwerth Shadow alto after a few months I got a Gloger neck for it as a test. I wish had seen this video as I would have had a much better understanding of what was goin g on but producing altissimo on the Gloger neck was much easier and more stable than the stock neck.

Now off to check all my sax necks. OH DEAR ...another GAS attack ?????

 

[Phil]

I kept one neck as a backup. Its pretty close to my VI stock neck...its an early engraved Barone neck. The tone is a tad more coarse which sometimes might be a good thing...but overall its pretty close. I dont use it but I bought it used ( I think), and I figured it would not hurt to have "Just in case". I dont play much anymore...mostly just make mouthpieces so its sits in a pouch on the shelf. Good neck though. I dont know if it is the same as the newer ones. If I had to play it instead of my stock neck i would be fine. The VI is a little more refined and Frenchy. The Barone gives it a little of that American bigger bore gritty sound....if that makes any sense...but its nothing extreme.

 

[Greg Strange]

Interesting video - thanks for posting. I play a gold-plated Peter Ponzol neck on my mid 1980s Yamaha 62 alto and I think the neck actually produces a beefier mid-range compared to the original Yamaha neck. I also have a Peter Ponzol gold-plated neck for my mid 1980s Yamaha 62 tenor but I tend to use a silver-plated Phil Barone neck most of the time. This neck tends to offer a bit more resistance and with the different bore and taper appears to produce a stronger mid-range tone. I might try playing the necks only to see how the harmonics are with these after market necks. Cheers.

Greg S.

 

[Ivan]

after a few months I got a Gloger neck

Mmmmmmmm

Gloger necks

I'm coming over all GASisch

 

[jbtsax]

I don't yet understand the details of the acoustics involved, but I do know that small changes to the geometry inside the neck/crook can produce significant differences in how a saxophone plays and sounds. I think that a part of this has to do with the number of nodes and anti-nodes that are located inside the neck/crook. It is known that the degree of taper of the saxophone and it's neck/crook determines the "harmonicity" of the overtones produced, in other works how close their frequencies are to whole number multiples of the frequency of the fundamental.

Much of the proprietary "acoustic customization" done to Cannonball professional model saxophones involves making small changes inside the necks. I have seen and heard this demonstrated first hand, and it does make a remarkable difference in the timbre, intonation, and intensity of the sound in before and after demonstrations.

The illustration below helps to show the relationships of the neck/crook and "missing cone" to the body of the saxophone. It is incredibly complex the way all of this "geometry" works together to produce a fine playing instrument.

 

[scotsman]

Sounds like a bit of hype to me. maybe GAS? Just get a good mouthpiece.. Try loads if you can... That,s what I did. Theo Wanne MP opened my sound and made altissimo a doddle.... Its obvious really with modern acoustic research and CMC machining.. BTW practice more with what you have..(OOPS! I'm sounding like my dad!!) .. Regards

 

[Jazzaferri]

I respectfully but completely disagree. By all means get a decent mpce and know how to play but the neck is the next most important piece in the puzzle and will make a noticeable difference even to a intermediate player

 

[Ivan]

I respectfully but completely disagree. By all means get a decent mpce and know how to play but the neck is the next most important piece in the puzzle and will make a noticeable difference even to a intermediate player

Very interesssssing Bloodnock

I'm not sure how to avoid this GAStrap

 

[saxyjt]

I just visited the MusicMedic site and bumped into this. Or that:



It better be good, as it's a bit pricey!

Made in Switzerland.

They claim it optimizes the instrument’s vibration.