Chirping - squeaks and toots

[PaulC]

Sometimes I play and the notes come out freely and smoothly. Other times its squeaks and flatulence. What causes the squeaks? Is it poor embouchure, dry reed? Some of those things? None of those things? Share with me the causes and how to stop the squeaks.

Thanks.

 

[jbtsax]

A squeak can be caused by several things. Usually a reed squeaks when one side vibrates and the other doesn't. Causes are:

• dry reed
• reed on crooked
• biting harder on one side of the reed than the other
• a reed that is thicker on one side than the other

Sometimes bumping a palm key can cause a squeak. Generally speaking, practicing long tones and building muscle control in the embouchure eliminates squeaking in short order.

 

[MandyH]

Make sure you give your reed a good suck before putting it on the mouthpiece.
Ensure the reed is well positioned on the mouthpiece - symmetrical, centred and straight and the tip is aligned with the top.
I put my mouthpiece in the neck, then take the neck off the sax and put the reed into the mouthpiece then. That way I can’t disturb the reed when putting the mouthpiece back onto the sax.

Ensure your embouchure is the same each time, and ensure you close keys consistently.

In the early months almost anything can happen. It takes a long time to settle into a consistent playing style.

 

[nigeld]

Some mouthpieces are more inclined to squeak than others. I once had a very nice mouthpiece that used to squeak. I think it was simply less forgiving than other mouthpieces. As I got used to it, the squeaks became less frequent.

Top G and G# on my tenor and bari saxes will squeak if I don't blow them right. For me, the way to avoid this seems to be to direct the airflow downward from the front of the mouth. Problem is solved by simply practicing these notes. Sometimes it is because my sax is too high, so simply increasing the length of the strap helps.

Playing the note confidently also seems to help - if I am anticipating a squeak, then I usually get one.

Slurring upward to a middle D on a tenor sax can squeak if you press the octave key a fraction too soon. The trick is to lead from the fourth finger of the left hand.

I recently had a squeak problem with my bari which was caused by a combination of two things
- I had a very high Sugru palm key extender on my palm D key - which meant that I could brush it with my hand without realising, especially when using the left hand pinkie keys.
- The spring on the palm D key was set very weak, so the key opened very easily.
Problem was solved by reducing the height of the key riser and increasing the strength of the spring by bending it a bit more.

 

[saxyjt]

As said above, G & G# are well known squeaky notes on Tenor. Practice makes them go away (mostly) so just keep blowing and one day you'll realize they are gone.

 

[Chris Smith UK]

Sometimes bumping a palm key can cause a squeak.

Yup! This gets me all the time. Sometimes it's just the slightest touch. 😀

 

[Chris Smith UK]

In the early months almost anything can happen. It takes a long time to settle into a consistent playing style.

Yes! haha I get lots of interesting notes when I'm playing. I call it Jazz. 😎😛

 

[PaulC]

Thanks for all the tips folks. I will put them into action!

 

[Chris Smith UK]

I hope you don't mind me piggy-backing on this post @PaulC but I wonder if anyone can shed any light on this squeaky D I'm getting...?

View: https://youtu.be/YLc2_vCf0RE

 

[MandyH]

Hi @Chris Smith UK out of interest what is your mouthpiece/Reed set up there.

If I was squeezing like that I would start with a new Reed, or increase the strength of the Reed slightly.

I still get squeeks like that with an older/softened Reed.
That, or the Reed is too dry.

IMHO

 

[BigMartin]

If it's OK when you make the transition slowly, but not when it's faster, the obvious suspect is finger coordination. That move (C to D) is one of the harder ones to make on the sax. The way to sort it out (whatever the cause) is to do it slowly, over and over until it works every time, preferably with a metronome. Spend a few minutes on it every day. Start really slow so you're practising getting it right rather than wrong. When it's easy, to the point that you're wondering why you ever thought there was a problem, then speed up a little bit. Keep repeating this process. I know it sounds boring but 5 minutes of that a day will do more for your technique than hours of playing one tune after another. And once you start to notice that improvement, it's not boring at all.

 

[jbtsax]

When the thumb octave key is pressed it opens the neck octave key unless the 3rd finger of the left hand is down which makes the body octave vent open instead. If the 3rd finger of the left hand is a bit slow when going from B to D as in this song, the neck octave key opens momentarily giving that "squeak" sound. The exercises below are designed to improve finger coordination and timing. The should all be practiced slowly at first then gradually increasing the speed.

Exercise set 1
Practice slurring B to G back and forth focusing on moving the 2nd and 3rd fingers together so the keys close at exactly the same time.
Then practice slurring C to G back and forth focusing on moving the 1st and 3rd fingers exactly at the same time.

Exercise set 2
Practice slurring high G down to D back and forth focusing on moving the RH fingers 4, 5, and 6 at exactly the same time.
Practice slurring high A down to D focusing on moving the LH 3 exactly together with the RH three fingers.
Practice slurring high B down to D focusing on moving LH 2 and 3 exactly together with the RH.
Practice slurring high C down to D focusing on moving LH 1 and 3 exactly together with the RH.

Now for the coup de gras.

Exercise set 3
Practice slurring low G up to D back and forth focusing on moving the RH fingers at the same time as the thumb octave.
Practice slurring low A up to D back and forth focusing on moving LH 3 exactly together with the RH fingers and the thumb.
Practice slurring B2 up to D back and forth focusing on moving LH fingers 2 and 3 together with the RH fingers and the thumb.
Practice slurring C2 up to D back and forth focusing on moving LH fingers 1 and 3 together with the RH fingers and the thumb.

The other occasional "chirps" coming through in the recording are probably the result of moving too much of the tongue too far inside the mouth when tonguing. Not "locking" the mouthpiece in place by pressing down with the top teeth can also allow the mouthpiece to move about which can also cause chirping.

 

[nigeld]

I heard two sorts of “squeak” in your recording.

One occurs when you slur up from the C to the D. The saxophone generates a top A instead of the D.
This is a fairly well-known problem due to the way the saxophone double-octave mechanism works.
I used to do it a lot, and it’s very frustrating.
The cause is that you are pressing the octave key slightly before the G key, so the neck octave vent opens momentarily and the saxophone jumps to the wrong harmonic.
The solution is to lead with the 3rd finger of the left hand rather than with your thumb - i.e. the G key needs to start going down before (or not later than) the octave key.
jbtsax’s exercises will help you here.

To see what is going on, hold the sax so you can watch the neck octave mechanism and try changing your fingers in slow motion from C to D.
- if you start with the octave key and then move your fingers, the neck octave vent will open and then close. This is what causes the squeak.
- if you start by moving your fingers and then the octave key, the neck octave vent will stay closed. This is what you want.
Of course in practice you need to move everything more or less together. Otherwise you will go from C to low D then middle D.

The other squeak is a chirp. This may be due to the way you are starting the note. Some mouthpieces chirp more than others.
The solution is practice. You can try different styles of tonguing (‘t’ or ‘d’, or some other consonant) and different mouth shapes and tongue positions. See how you can make it happen every time and then learn not to do it.

 

[Chris Smith UK]

Hi @Chris Smith UK out of interest what is your mouthpiece/Reed set up there.

If I was squeezing like that I would start with a new Reed, or increase the strength of the Reed slightly.

I still get squeeks like that with an older/softened Reed.
That, or the Reed is too dry.

IMHO

Hi @MandyH it's a Jupiter 4C mouthpiece with a Rico 2.0 reed. I've tried different reeds, but I still get the squeak, however, all 2.0 reeds, so I could try a 2.5. Thanks.

 

[Chris Smith UK]

If it's OK when you make the transition slowly, but not when it's faster, the obvious suspect is finger coordination. That move (C to D) is one of the harder ones to make on the sax. The way to sort it out (whatever the cause) is to do it slowly, over and over until it works every time, preferably with a metronome. Spend a few minutes on it every day. Start really slow so you're practising getting it right rather than wrong. When it's easy, to the point that you're wondering why you ever thought there was a problem, then speed up a little bit. Keep repeating this process. I know it sounds boring but 5 minutes of that a day will do more for your technique than hours of playing one tune after another. And once you start to notice that improvement, it's not boring at all.

Hi @BigMartin thanks for that - I'll give that a go.

 

[Chris Smith UK]

When the thumb octave key is pressed it opens the neck octave key unless the 3rd finger of the left hand is down which makes the body octave vent open instead. If the 3rd finger of the left hand is a bit slow when going from B to D as in this song, the neck octave key opens momentarily giving that "squeak" sound. The exercises below are designed to improve finger coordination and timing. The should all be practiced slowly at first then gradually increasing the speed.

Exercise set 1
Practice slurring B to G back and forth focusing on moving the 2nd and 3rd finger together so the keys close at exactly the same time.
Then practice slurring C to G back and forth focusing on moving the 1st and 3rd fingers exactly at the same time.

Exercise set 2
Practice slurring high G down to D back and forth focusing on moving the RH fingers 4, 5, and 6 at exactly the same time.
Practice slurring high A down to D focusing on moving the LH 3 exactly together with the RH three fingers.
Practice slurring high B down to D focusing on moving LH 2 and 3 exactly together with the RH.
Practice slurring high C down to D focusing on moving LH 1 and 3 exactly together with the RH.

Now for the coup de gras.

Exercise set 3
Practice slurring low G up to D back and forth focusing on moving the RH fingers at the same time as the thumb octave.
Practice slurring low A up to D back and forth focusing on moving LH 3 exactly together with the RH fingers and the thumb.
Practice slurring B2 up to D back and forth focusing on moving LH fingers 2 and 3 together with the RH fingers and the thumb.
Practice slurring C2 up to D back and forth focusing on moving LH fingers 1 and 3 together with the RH fingers and the thumb.

The other occasional "chirps" coming through in the recording are probably the result of moving too much of the tongue too far inside the mouth when tonguing. Not "locking" the mouthpiece in place by pressing down with the top teeth can also allow the mouthpiece to move about which can also cause chirping.

@jbtsax Thanks for such a detailed response. I'll work my way through these exercises.

 

[Chris Smith UK]

I heard two sorts of “squeak” in your recording.

One occurs when you slur up from the C to the D. The saxophone generates a top A instead of the D.
This is a fairly well-known problem due to the way the saxophone double-octave mechanism works.
I used to do it a lot, and it’s very frustrating.
The cause is that you are pressing the octave key slightly before the G key, so the neck octave vent opens momentarily and the saxophone jumps to the wrong harmonic.
The solution is to lead with the 3rd finger of the left hand rather than with your thumb - i.e. the G key needs to start going down before (or not later than) the octave key.
jbtsax’s exercises will help you here.

To see what is going on, hold the sax so you can watch the neck octave mechanism and try changing your fingers in slow motion from C to D.
- if you start with the octave key and then move your fingers, the neck octave vent will open and then close. This is what causes the squeak.
- if you start by moving your fingers and then the octave key, the neck octave vent will stay closed. This is what you want.
Of course in practice you need to move everything more or less together. Otherwise you will go from C to low D then middle D.

The other squeak is a chirp. This may be due to the way you are starting the note. Some mouthpieces chirp more than others.
The solution is practice. You can try different styles of tonguing (‘t’ or ‘d’, or some other consonant) and different mouth shapes and tongue positions. See how you can make it happen every time and then learn not to do it.

Thanks @nigeld Based on the feedback, I suspect oit is my technique, and the order my fingers move, so I'll try the exercises and see how I get on.