Saxophone reviews Chinese Sops from Gear4music Soprano Saxophone Review

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Back to the subject of Cheap sops - I find it a shame that so many like the G4M in the review are "Almost there" as in a tiny bit more care and attention would have them A:- not being sent back, B:- putting people off the instrument C:- a better reputation and D:- actually saving the company money (less returns) ..

When you think how much goes into the making of one of these things, I find it a real shame they can`t go the last few yards making sure all that work pays off in a playable (and actually quite decent) musical instrument .

We seem to have moved on from really dodgy stuff like packing out dodgy actions with bog-roll and bending the pivot rods to take up slack , pillow pads to mask wobbly toneholes and bear trap spring action to help the same so even more of a shame the importers can`t spend even 5 minutes per instrument sorting the goods fom the duds . and maybe even having someone there sorting out the sortable missers like the one even I managed to sort..

I know this costs G4M time and it` s not just saxes, there are a whole range of other woodwind, brass, guitars, bowed strings etc but surely , everytime an instrument is sent back - it costs them carriage both ways . no small amount especially if its a larger one like a Bari, a Cello, a drum kit etc..

Pic of the G4M Packaging - No doubt on high end horns, they re-use the manufacturers sturdy packing cartons

 

[Colin the Bear]

Most high turnover companies just bin their returns and adjust prices to accommodate this wastage. It's very prudent and kind of G4M to offer them at knock down prices.

 

[jbtsax]

I'm a bit late jumping into this discussion, but I would like to make an observation. Stephen Howard's reviews are so valuable because he looks at saxes from the inside out from the perspective of both a repair technician and as a player. The very lowest priced Chinese saxophones do indeed look very nice cosmetically. The real differences between those and the other higher priced Asian saxophones has to do with the quality of materials, quality of parts, quality of assembly, and quality of design. Many of the attributes are not apparent until the keys are removed and the hinge rods, pivot screws, hinge tubes, toneholes, solder joints, buffering materials, springs, and posts are inspected up close.

Even if a tech were to go completely through one of these ISO's (instrument shaped objects) and bring the mechanics and materials up to par, many of them would still play octaves out of tune and be impossible to play music on because of the amount of "lipping" required to play a "well tempered scale would be highly impractical.

I am not condemning ALL Mainland Chinese Saxophones because I haven't seen them all. I am just describing those I have seen that seem to be the worst of the breed.

 

[Colin the Bear]

These G4M horns play well and in tune with the right set up. Smug smirks turn into double takes when mine come out up at the local meets. Some get bashed in transit and some are made by apprentices. Stephen Howard reviewed the G4M alto a while back. That review helped me make up my mind to buy one almost two years ago and I'm glad I did. It's a player.

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/Reviews/Saxes/Alto/gear4music_alto.htm

 

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Well this sop may have needed a bit of very minor fettling (Minor enough tor me to be able to do it) and the tuning and playablility are up to par . as you say Colin, we`ve benefitted from G4M selling returns as it`s provided what is basically a new horn for the price of a used one of the same class. a used G4M I was watching finished on fleabay and sold for £122 , who knows what state that was in , could be anything from perfect to total dud (Likely somewhere inbetween) and without the 12 month warrany we`ve got on this one .

You said "welcome to my world" . well if a pad fails, your technique of buying a pack of pads for under a tenner and bunging them on with Evo-stik will no doubt keep it running. the best bit is that it`s given her a horn to play with which doesn`t demand regular use due to high cost and I can have a blast on it now and again too.

 

[Ivan]

I could ditch the Taiwanese Sak for but I`d really like an actual SA80, a Mk1

Are we still on sopranos? I haven't got a SA80Mk I soprano but I have got an alto from new (1983-ish) and I can't think of a reason to replace it

 

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No, sorry, I was on about my "other" (alternative) Alto which is a Taiwanese SA80 copy which I`d love to change for a real Mk1 SA80 but can`t either afford or warrant it at the moment .

 

[ProfJames]

Spotted a clone, very similar to my old 300, yesterday for £60. Was tempted but I didn't recognise the "H" logo on the bell so left it alone. Gone now. There are many which match the 300, such as this one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151424670534?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
The most expensive at around £1300, but still very similar.

The H logo may well be the Fortissimo logo

 

[Ads]

I`m pretty sure you`re right there - the scripted FF looks like an H

 

[kernewegor]

I'm a bit late jumping into this discussion, but I would like to make an observation. Stephen Howard's reviews are so valuable because he looks at saxes from the inside out from the perspective of both a repair technician and as a player. The very lowest priced Chinese saxophones do indeed look very nice cosmetically. The real differences between those and the other higher priced Asian saxophones has to do with the quality of materials, quality of parts, quality of assembly, and quality of design. Many of the attributes are not apparent until the keys are removed and the hinge rods, pivot screws, hinge tubes, toneholes, solder joints, buffering materials, springs, and posts are inspected up close.

Even if a tech were to go completely through one of these ISO's (instrument shaped objects) and bring the mechanics and materials up to par, many of them would still play octaves out of tune and be impossible to play music on because of the amount of "lipping" required to play a "well tempered scale would be highly impractical.

I am not condemning ALL Mainland Chinese Saxophones because I haven't seen them all. I am just describing those I have seen that seem to be the worst of the breed.

I've seen quite a bit of similar comment from others in the USA.

I'm wondering if you have some importers there who lack the savvy to find the good guys in China? Or maybe they are happy to sell junk and are buying up rejects or have gone for the very cheapest producer? Maybe its a Machiavellian plot to convince people that nothing costing less than four figures is any good?

I dunno.

Whichever way up, they are clearly not selling the same product that G4M sells.

 

[kernewegor]

These G4M horns play well and in tune with the right set up. Smug smirks turn into double takes when mine come out up at the local meets. Some get bashed in transit and some are made by apprentices. Stephen Howard reviewed the G4M alto a while back. That review helped me make up my mind to buy one almost two years ago and I'm glad I did. It's a player.

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/Reviews/Saxes/Alto/gear4music_alto.htm

I read the same Stephen Howard review and also his article on ultra cheap Chinese horns and, like you, it helped me decide to get a G4M tenor.

I am very glad I did.

It played straight from the box and even better with a few tweaks. And at that price anyone would have to be very timid not to to do a bit of tweaking themselves.

 

[jbtsax]

I've seen quite a bit of similar comment from others in the USA.

I'm wondering if you have some importers there who lack the savvy to find the good guys in China? Or maybe they are happy to sell junk and are buying up rejects or have gone for the very cheapest producer? Maybe its a Machiavellian plot to convince people that nothing costing less than four figures is any good?

I dunno.

Whichever way up, they are clearly not selling the same product that G4M sells.

The ones I am referring to are not sold by dealers, but direct on Ebay U.S. The altos cost £124 or less with free shipping. They come with a pair of white gloves, and they are clearly exported from mainland China.
They used to have "brand names" but they no longer do. The "big box" internet sellers like WWBW have brands like Allora that start around £218 that may be more comparable to the bargains in the UK that are ok instruments. To get a real good entry level sax new over here generally starts around £560 and goes up from there. Of course there are some good buys on used Yamaha's etc.

 

[Ads]

you can easily get a decent entry level horn over here for far less, maybe our penury state here drives dealers to find the places which turn out the better ones ? . also we have a sale of goods act here to protect us from dealers and UK based internet sellers pushing ornaments masquerading as musical instruments (things actually have to be fit for purpose) .

Anyone buying directly from China is just asking for a new table lamp stand to be delivered

 

[ProfJames]

The ones I am referring to are not sold by dealers, but direct on Ebay U.S. The altos cost £124 or less with free shipping. They come with a pair of white gloves, and they are clearly exported from mainland China.
They used to have "brand names" but they no longer do. The "big box" internet sellers like WWBW have brands like Allora that start around £218 that may be more comparable to the bargains in the UK that are ok instruments. To get a real good entry level sax new over here generally starts around £560 and goes up from there. Of course there are some good buys on used Yamaha's etc.

Not to be contentious but a Stephanhouser alto I can buy from eBay in the USA for £350ish. They are great horns! £580 is about $800 and I have pals in teh USA who have bought cheap horns for less than that who are happy. Are you talking about a premium intermediate horn or an entry level?

 

[Ads]

I think he`s on about New . it would seem there is both no decent Chinese suppliers of budget horns and no proper consumer standards laws over there , even Sony only give 90 day warranties

 

[Colin the Bear]

Business opportunity?

 

[ProfJames]

I think he`s on about New . it would seem there is both no decent Chinese suppliers of budget horns and no proper consumer standards laws over there , even Sony only give 90 day warranties

There are plenty of cheap horns in the USA!!!

 

[Ads]

Dunno , never been or seen how good or bad the new cheapies are there, you`d not think so by John`s comment (and he lives there)

 

[ProfJames]

Yes, it would be good to get jbt to do a review of whathe regards as the low/entry level sax market in the USA of just Utah and surounding states

 

[ProfJames]

You can buy a used Rat (also one just ran past me in the garden!) for £144 on eBay!!!