Celebrations

majordennis

Senior Member
Messages
445
Location
Gone West
#1
Am I being over-sensitive here but I would be interested to hear other views on "in yer face" celebrations by the winners of competitions. I appreciate the effort, hard work and dedication that goes into preparing for such events but surely the losing side have prepared just as diligently.

Having been in both positions myself albeit at a considerably lower level and being in the losing camp a lot more than the winning, I was always very grateful for the consolation as a worthy and respected opponent, I am fully aware that this does happen eventually but surely the self-congratulation can wait until after.

Just an old fogey having a rant, rant over, I thank you.
 

nigeld

I think I need a different ligature
Subscriber
Messages
3,604
Location
Bristol
#3
Personally I feel that an Englishman or English lady should be quite satisfied with a quiet smile and a cup of tea after winning a medal.
In exceptional circumstances an extra digestive biscuit may be permissible.
 

Targa

Among the pigeons
Subscriber
Messages
7,964
Location
KIC 8462852
#4
The refined shaking hands and clapping the opposing team in doesn't have the showmanship for the media and express the aggressive dominance and humiliation now required in all forms of 'entertainment' and other areas of life.
For a literal in your face celebration there is the champagne spraying on the podium of motor racing events.
This was done first by Dan Gurney in 1967, after winning the Le Mans he spontaneously sprayed champagne while celebrating on the podium,
This was taken to new highs in 2016 on the podium in Germany when Daniel Ricciardo performed a new celebration, he drank champagne out of his shoe.
 
Last edited:

majordennis

Senior Member
Messages
445
Location
Gone West
#5
The refined shaking hands and clapping the opposing team in doesn't have the showmanship for the media and express the aggressive dominance and humiliation now required in all forms of 'entertainment' and other areas of life.
Not thought of it like that but very well observed.
 

Jeanette

Organizress
Cafe Moderator
Messages
22,864
Location
Cheshire UK
#6
Am I being over-sensitive here but I would be interested to hear other views on "in yer face" celebrations by the winners of competitions. I appreciate the effort, hard work and dedication that goes into preparing for such events but surely the losing side have prepared just as diligently.
Interesting question, do you have a specific recent win in mind? I wonder how much of it is adrenaline fuelled and just surprise and relief at winning.........

Whilst @nigeld 's post is obviously the good mannered way. These days there is so much pressure in some sports, the participants are only human and must have to let that pressure out....

Jx
 

Wade Cornell

Well-Known Member
Subscriber
Messages
1,410
Location
New Zealand and Australia
#9
The question wasn't prefaced with the type of competition. Dare I say in music competitions it not quite the same as sports. Having said that and presumed that everybody presumes that the jocks will be more demonstrative (and they will), I've never thought music competitions a good idea. If the object is winning then it's all about knowing the judges and trying to please them. Completions in the arts are altogether a bad idea as it takes the focus away from self development and instead gives power and authority to the judges, who have their own ideas and prejudices. History is full of stories of artists and composers who entered competitions and were chastised for not conforming to what was expected. In some cases it may have set them back, but fortunately for us some re-emerged. Most of the Impressionist painters and composers suffered this indignity. I've had rants in the past about teaching systems, and frankly think they are more about bureaucratic uniformity (grade levels), than development of an individual as an artist. Competitions are just another reinforcement of this sort of regimentation. It comes down to being the best at conforming...how does that make for a good artist?

Sports? Ha! Is there any difference now to gladiator times? Entertainment for the masses in which the competitors are surrogates for warriors. My country, local football club, high school, etc. against others. Rah Rah Rah! When (if ever) I watch sport it's to see the level of skill of the participants. Why would I care who wins? The question IMHO is "was it a good game/match?" Unfortunately most viewers, coaches and the athletes themselves are weighted with the pressure of their "representing" all those who wish to see them BEAT their opponent. Well, maybe surrogate warfare is better than the real thing. As a social animal we tend to "group" and want our group to be dominant. Sports competitions pander to that darker side of our nature. Unfortunately it's not likely to disappear and the victory celebration is understandable when so much is committed to the warrior's dilemma of winning or defeat.

Sorry about the rant, but the question is one that brings to the fore a very fundamental human trait that's not one of our best. Each of us can ignore it as individuals by not being participants or viewers. Or, if participating not allowing the group's pressure to make you just another ape showing dominance.
 

Wade Cornell

Well-Known Member
Subscriber
Messages
1,410
Location
New Zealand and Australia
#11
"Magnanimous in victory and gracious in defeat", it's not difficult.
Would be nice. With the mind set, training and pressure on competitors is it real to expect this? If Magnanimous,. is it for real or just programmed by coaches that the competitor should do this for show? I don't think there is any way to get away from human nature and competitors are probably pressured more now than ever. Would it be better for them to "ape" being magnanimous if it's not real? If you don't like seeing the real nature of competitions the real answer is to not support them. Be absent...that's what I do. I don't wish to associate with anything that uses my country, local area or anything else that intends to recruit me for supporting sport, religion, propaganda, or war. There may be legitimate reasons for supporting any of those things, but local association of being part of a group to mindlessly Rah Rah Rah tends to exclude those legitimate reasons.

Maybe just me and my agoraphobic tendencies. I just don't get why anyone would want to give up their individuality to be part of a crowd that lusts for "their gladiator" to BEAT some opponent. The crowd celebrates the victory. Is it reasonable to expect that the competitor shouldn't and should show some fake modesty?
 

Targa

Among the pigeons
Subscriber
Messages
7,964
Location
KIC 8462852
#12
and here i thought it was all about taking part
No, it's all about the money.
As the money has been poured into each sport in turn mainly by the media it has degenerated and the competitors are no longer sportsmen or sportswomen but overpaid 'celebrity' prima donnas.
 

David Dorning

Senior Member
Subscriber
Messages
592
Location
Chichester, UK
#13
Slightly OT, I’m always amused to see footballers from both sides coming onto the pitch and crossing themselves. When this happens which team gets the advantage? Is there an optimum crossing technique (facing East perhaps or synchronising the whole team?). Do they get points for style, or is advantage simply granted to the team with the greatest number of crossers? Does crossing confer an unfair advantage and are footballers subject to random testing? What should atheists do and if they abstain from crossing what do their teammates think of them? Are they ostracised, suspended or put on the transfer list? Or if they are all mistaken and there is no God, is crossing actually a disadvantage to their team? So many weighty questions.
 

Wade Cornell

Well-Known Member
Subscriber
Messages
1,410
Location
New Zealand and Australia
#14
Here in New Zealand the Haka is used before matches. It mocks and challenges the opponents and does not evoke god or anyone else to intervene. It's a warrior's gesture. Although it still doesn't make me want to participate or watch I can respect the the display as having integrity. Why pretend you are doing divine work and ask for a deity's intervention; or exhibit fake modesty on winning? If you are going to participate or watch surrogate warfare you may as well be honest about it and embrace your nastier instincts.
 
Messages
241
Location
Long Island
#15
This is one if the reasons I'm no longer a sports fan.
However, there is a lighter side to this that is a totally a tangent and has absolutely nothing to do with saxophones or sports: FIRST robotics. Here's the mini-gist of it: FIRST stands for For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology. They created many tiers of robotics competitions ranging from 7 and 8 year olds with legos to high schoolers like myself with full fledged robots, run almost entirely by unpayed volunteers . I've been a part of it sinse I was 7 myself. Here's the part that relates: two of the principles that they demand of the tens of thousands of teams that compete are gracious professionalism and coopertition (both coined by FIRST, coopertition is not a typo). Gracious professionalism is a way of doing things that encourages the competing teams to help each other, say lend other teams your tools or spare parts, as your competitor one round could be your partner in the next. Coopertition involves respecting and working with other people regardless of their views and customs. They always say near the end of each new game reveal that "evolution favored some nasty behavior, and we want to get rid of some of that." Although there's lots of crazy in your face garbage out there, there are some organizations fighting against it in some way, like FIRST. If you want to know more about it, I'm your guru.
 

Wade Cornell

Well-Known Member
Subscriber
Messages
1,410
Location
New Zealand and Australia
#16
This is one if the reasons I'm no longer a sports fan.
However, there is a lighter side to this that is a totally a tangent and has absolutely nothing to do with saxophones or sports: FIRST robotics. Here's the mini-gist of it: FIRST stands for For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology. They created many tiers of robotics competitions ranging from 7 and 8 year olds with legos to high schoolers like myself with full fledged robots, run almost entirely by unpayed volunteers . I've been a part of it sinse I was 7 myself. Here's the part that relates: two of the principles that they demand of the tens of thousands of teams that compete are gracious professionalism and coopertition (both coined by FIRST, coopertition is not a typo). Gracious professionalism is a way of doing things that encourages the competing teams to help each other, say lend other teams your tools or spare parts, as your competitor one round could be your partner in the next. Coopertition involves respecting and working with other people regardless of their views and customs. They always say near the end of each new game reveal that "evolution favored some nasty behavior, and we want to get rid of some of that." Although there's lots of crazy in your face garbage out there, there are some organizations fighting against it in some way, like FIRST. If you want to know more about it, I'm your guru.
I've seen some of that on TV. and indeed the competitors seem good-natured (but of course it's the rules so you have to be). In the competition they are trying to trash each other's machine (via their controllers). It just seems amusing...no problem, but when you see any shots of the "fans" they are relatively similar to any other sports fans and pick one side to identify with and wish to see their chosen side win. It's good to see a show that features ingenuity and gamesmanship, yet the watchers don't seem to be that much different to any other gladiator show with them screaming support for their chosen titanium warrior. At least they aren't pressured to win so that they can make $$ endorsing wheat bix.
 

Targa

Among the pigeons
Subscriber
Messages
7,964
Location
KIC 8462852
#18
This is one if the reasons I'm no longer a sports fan.
However, there is a lighter side to this that is a totally a tangent and has absolutely nothing to do with saxophones or sports: FIRST robotics. Here's the mini-gist of it: FIRST stands for For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology. They created many tiers of robotics competitions ranging from 7 and 8 year olds with legos to high schoolers like myself with full fledged robots, run almost entirely by unpayed volunteers . I've been a part of it sinse I was 7 myself. Here's the part that relates: two of the principles that they demand of the tens of thousands of teams that compete are gracious professionalism and coopertition (both coined by FIRST, coopertition is not a typo). Gracious professionalism is a way of doing things that encourages the competing teams to help each other, say lend other teams your tools or spare parts, as your competitor one round could be your partner in the next. Coopertition involves respecting and working with other people regardless of their views and customs. They always say near the end of each new game reveal that "evolution favored some nasty behavior, and we want to get rid of some of that." Although there's lots of crazy in your face garbage out there, there are some organizations fighting against it in some way, like FIRST. If you want to know more about it, I'm your guru.
If I've got it right it is various technical challenges.
I took the trouble to search for it and not simply make the mistake of assuming it was a version of Robot Wars and start criticising the programme.
 
Top Bottom