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Carbon Fibre

ManEast

Member
Messages
203
Hi All

I Also think that Carbon fibre is the future. It is very strong...so you could build horns thinner and more vibrant without the worry of bending or denting. The horn would be strong, light and very easy on ones neck. There is also a material called high density carbon fibre that could be used for tone holes and neck socket's. What's more H.D Carbon fibre can be threaded.

Also it seems quite insane that we still have point screws when we now have ultra small precision bearing's.

But best of all... the main body of the sax would be laid-up in one piece. Can you imagine what that would sound like. I have put an Alto M.P. onto some carbon fibre tubing... and I think you would a shocked by the warmth of the sound .

If I was working for Selmer right now,I think that I would be approaching a french company by the name of Look. Look make some of the best carbon fibre products in the world, inc the best Carbon fibre bike frames.

Now that you could call a 21st century Saxophone! We have spent the last 40 years making Saxophones heavier and more cumbersome with no sonic jump of the SBA,MK6,10M, bar. Its time to move up.
 
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Flipper2008

Member
Messages
116
Ovation make these amazing guitars with carbon fibre soundboards

http://www.ovationguitars.com/guitars/product/adamas_1581_kk
 
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kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
21,947
Have been wondering about a carbon fibre sax for a while. But it'll be a lot of development for someone. And no guarantee of sales... You know what musicians are like.
 

milandro

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,483
actually, if saxophonists were anything like flautists we would have had that already
MATIT Flutes Home
http://www.gflute.com/en/?p=198

but saxophonists are cheap compared to flautists ..........I know I am;}
 
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jonf

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,680
I agree with Kev on this. Carbon fibre could make a great sax, I'm pretty sure, but sax players are notoriously conservative. It's hard enough to get a typical US pro to consider anything other than a Selmer mark VI, let alone some weirdo carbon fibre nonsense........
 

daveysaxboy

Big ruff Geordie bendy metal blower
Messages
3,312
People have huge hot headed talks compairing lacquer v's no lacquer sax's so a carbon sax would be a huge no no.
 

rhysonsax

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,391
Also:
http://www.luisandclark.com/
I've heard they are louder than wooden instruments, which is interesting.
I'd love to see and try a carbon-fibre sax!
Fascinating stuff and there's an interesting video on their website taken from the Discovery Channel. I saw that they lacquer the instrument, so that's another can of worms if they ever apply this technology to saxophones.

My daughter has just started playing the double bass, but with a carbon-fibre one costing $12,939 I may see how she gets on before buying her one of these.

Thanks for that

Rhys

PS Don't acoustics people say that the body of stringed instruments vibrates and resonates, but in saxophones it is supposed to just be the air column vibrating within the body - hence all the endless discussion about whether material has any effect at all on saxophone sound ?
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
21,947
Don't acoustics people say that the body of stringed instruments vibrates and resonates, but in saxophones it is supposed to just be the air column vibrating within the body - hence all the endless discussion about whether material has any effect at all on saxophone sound ?
Yes, but.... From what I've read, the base assumptions for this are smooth internal finish and that the sax is massive enough not to distort from the sound waves/pressure changes. And there's the issue of the finish of the inside of the sax, the shape/position of the tone holes and the joint to the body which would be affected by the construction materials/method.

But you can feel a sax vibrate as you play it - and although the vibrations can e shown to be inaudible, it rather argues against the assumption that the sax is massive enough that the body doesn't affect the sound.

And you also have to ask why organ makers make their pipes out of different materials for different sounds... So although I tend towards the argument that the material doesn't affect the sound, I'm not really convinced.
 

daveysaxboy

Big ruff Geordie bendy metal blower
Messages
3,312
Yes, but.... From what I've read, the base assumptions for this are smooth internal finish and that the sax is massive enough not to distort from the sound waves/pressure changes. And there's the issue of the finish of the inside of the sax, the shape/position of the tone holes and the joint to the body which would be affected by the construction materials/method.

But you can feel a sax vibrate as you play it - and although the vibrations can e shown to be inaudible, it rather argues against the assumption that the sax is massive enough that the body doesn't affect the sound.

And you also have to ask why organ makers make their pipes out of different materials for different sounds... So although I tend towards the argument that the material doesn't affect the sound, I'm not really convinced.
OH NO HERE WE GO AGAIN,THE LID IS DEFFO OF THE CAN NOW,But i must say as i have before i DO think unlacqured horns play more free,OH I DID IT NOW.As for carbon fibre,WHY OH WHY OH WHY would we want 1.Are we still not happy with our choice we have today compared to say the 1950's players choice,i for 1 think we are really spoilt these days.Yes i am a gear freak but i can TRULY say i wont be holding a carbon fibre sax,well i hope not.
 
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Taz

Busking Oracle
Messages
3,662
.... but i can TRULY say i wont be holding a carbon fibre sax,well i hope not.
Surely that depends on the sound it makes, if the tone blows your Mauriats out of the water then maybe, just maybe



lights blue touch paper and retreats to a safe distance ;}
 

jonf

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,680
You know what'll happen, he'll buy about 8 of 'em, all top of the range, and they'll be just perfect until the next unobtainium models come along:)))
 

ManEast

Member
Messages
203
Hi Rhys


PS Don't acoustics people say that the body of stringed instruments vibrates and resonates, *(but in saxophones it is supposed to just be the air column vibrating within the body )*- hence all the endless discussion about whether material has any effect at all on saxophone sound ?[/QUOTE]

Yes they do...I still think they are Talking Total b.s
 

daveysaxboy

Big ruff Geordie bendy metal blower
Messages
3,312
Surely that depends on the sound it makes, if the tone blows your Mauriats out of the water then maybe, just maybe



lights blue touch paper and retreats to a safe distance ;}
See i said i done it now,me and me big gob
 

daveysaxboy

Big ruff Geordie bendy metal blower
Messages
3,312
You know what'll happen, he'll buy about 8 of 'em, all top of the range, and they'll be just perfect until the next unobtainium models come along:)))
Ya never no with me !!!!!! but i still cant get me heed around a carbon fibre sax,would it be in a carbon finish or would it be done to look like brass,both sound awful to me.Ya cant wack a smelly green mouldy lump of brass round ya neck for me.
 

gladsaxisme

Try Hard Die Hard
Subscriber
Messages
3,409
Loving this thread watching the divide between the aye's and nay's develop I personally believe that it's most likely that everything has an effect in some way on every thing else.If not why would one sax played by the same person with the same set up sound completely different to another sax,why should one sax have this tone and another that tone unless the differences in the materials they are made of make them sound different.I'm definitely for the carbon fibre sax and think there could be some remarkable finishes to be had and the strength would be a big bonus.
 
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dooce

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,418
Interesting how carbon fibre has become a "sexy" material. When it first came out, it was like every effort was made to hide the stuff - now the black weave pattern is so popular, you can buy bits for cars and bikes made of cheap plastic but looking like cf because it has become an desirable material.

Personally I can just see a black cf weave sax with gold keywork - yeh, bring it on! Just think how light it would be as well - no more aching necks. There is the risk that it would sound sh*te of course, but till someone tries it, we'll never know.....
 

ManEast

Member
Messages
203
Hector Core Red Head

Hector Carbon fibre Saxophones ltd only make four model's. The two base level models(The SB model and LB model(small bore & Large bore)are available with a choice of three necks H.D Carbon fibre, H.D.Copper and solid Silver.
The H.D Copper/SB model Tenor is the most inexpensive Tenor of the range and starts at £5770.00 and the Copper/LB Tenor is £6030.00. If you want anything other than the standard Matt Black carbon finish it will cost you anything from £200-£700 more for a custom finish depending on the amount of colours and detail...i.e hand penned scroll work.

The Two top models (The Core.SB and The Core.LB) are both one piece items( Yes... the neck will NOT come off !) These Saxophones are a bespoke fit, and require a 2hr consolation that involves the customer playing the Hector Sax-fit, to get the exact angle of the crook and the position thumb rest's right for its player. The Case for both of the Hector Core Saxophones are, I have to say slightly odd looking things, as they are a bit wider at the top to cater for the off-set crook. The Core S.B will cost you £7880.00 and the Core L.B £8833.00.

The model I got to play was The Core L.B Red head Tenor. The Red head was a deep metallic olive green. With a 1950,s style Red headed Pin-up girl hand painted around the Bell.
Man oh Man... That horn !

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz !
ManEast x
 
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Nick Wyver

noisy
Subscriber
Messages
5,953
I think I got the hang of this when I used to frequent SOTW. It's: Silver plated saxes are bright, black laquered ones are dull. See, it's easy - the shinier the sax (or ligature if you like) the brighter the sound. Piece of cake!

Hands up who can tell when Charlie Parker played a Grafton?

Carbon fibre? Why not? I hope someone gives it a go. Sound might be a bit dull though - all that black.
 

old git

Tremendous Bore
Messages
5,545
Carbon fibre saxophones have been mentioned on this board before, along with a more logical fingering system but I can't remember by whom?

I am worried by one detail though, can you 'strip' a carbon fibre sax like a lacquered one?
 
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