Taming The Saxophone

Saxophones C# G# Connection... Does your saxophone?

Mat

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I thought that all saxophones had a connection b/w C# and G#. By lifting the C# key on my Yanni, the G# opens. However, on my Amarti's they don't. Does yours?????
 

jthole

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My Martin Indiana alto: no.
The others: yes.

With clunky keywork, that connection can also be a curse for your pinky finger.
 

nigeld

I think I need a different ligature
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My Buescher True Tone alto and Big-B Aristocrat bari didn't have it, nor does my 1923 Conn C-Mel.
But my other saxes do.
 

jbtsax

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That "articulated G#" mechanism where any of the LH plateau keys also open the G# is the reason that there is a G# closing arm that extends from the F# key. This area is where some of the most important "regulation" of the saxophone takes place. The G# must remain fully closed or none of the bell notes can sound.
 

Colin the Bear

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C# lifting G# only happens with a tilting table. The old Amati is a much earlier and simple design. The mechanism is less bulky but I find the positioning of the table very awkward after playing a tilting table.
 
OP
M

Mat

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Thanks heaps for the replies guys. Didn't realise people's C# G# connection would be such a secret...:oops::oops::oops:

However, from the small response sample, I am gleaning this is an age of Saxophone issue at a basic level. However, the Martin Com 3 does, so maybe not quite as simple?
 

Pete Thomas

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That "articulated G#" mechanism where any of the LH plateau keys also open the G# is the reason that there is a G# closing arm
I always thought articulated refers to the mechanism that allows you to play F# and lower while still holding down G#, whereas the mechanism that allows the LH pinky keys to operate G# was called the tabbed mechanism. I may be wrong but that's what I wrote here:

 

jbtsax

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Interesting. I have not seen the expression "tabbed G#" before. In my understanding and usage "articulated keys" are those whereby one key makes contact with and operates a separate key that is on separate hinge. I can see how the term could also be applied to the mechanism that allows the F# key to close the G# or Bis if they are currently open.

In this sense many of the early models of saxophones had bell keys that were "articulated" in the sense that the touch piece was a separate key on a separate hinge than the the keycup itself. Eventually these keys evolved to where the touch and the keycup we one solid key.

I honestly don't know if my "terminology" is correct or not. I tried looking it up in the Complete Woodwind Repair Manual by Reg Thorp, but he doesn't appear to use the term at all.
 

Stephen Howard

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C# lifting G# only happens with a tilting table. The old Amati is a much earlier and simple design. The mechanism is less bulky but I find the positioning of the table very awkward after playing a tilting table.
You don't need a tilting table in order to have a C#/G# connection - all it requires is a tab extending from the G# touchpiece.
A good example is the bell key table on a purple logo Yamaha 62.

On some horns (later Amatis, for example) there's a sliding tab beneath the G# touchpiece that allows the player to switch the C#/B/G# link on and off. Couesnons also have a similar, though more complex, feature.
 

GCinCT

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You don't need a tilting table in order to have a C#/G# connection - all it requires is a tab extending from the G# touchpiece.
A good example is the bell key table on a purple logo Yamaha 62.

On some horns (later Amatis, for example) there's a sliding tab beneath the G# touchpiece that allows the player to switch the C#/B/G# link on and off. Couesnons also have a similar, though more complex, feature.
I have a purple logo alto. I really like the non-tilting table.
 

Stephen Howard

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I bow to your superior knowledge. I've not come across that. I've yet to get my hands on any of the horns mentioned. The sliding tab sounds complicated.

Second shot down shows the table - you can just see the tabs off the G#.


Second shot down again, shows the selectable interconnect.

Thought I had a shot of the Amati gizmo, but if I have I can't find it.
 

JayeNM

Formerly JayePDX
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I always thought articulated refers to the mechanism that allows you to play F# and lower while still holding down G#, whereas the mechanism that allows the LH pinky keys to operate G# was called the tabbed mechanism. I may be wrong but that's what I wrote here:

This is how I understood it, although I also understand many use 'articulated' in that manner...
You don't need a tilting table in order to have a C#/G# connection - all it requires is a tab extending from the G# touchpiece.
A good example is the bell key table on a purple logo Yamaha 62.

On some horns (later Amatis, for example) there's a sliding tab beneath the G# touchpiece that allows the player to switch the C#/B/G# link on and off. Couesnons also have a similar, though more complex, feature.
Yup, tabbed G#'s started appearing way before tilting tables became very common. Beaugnier/Vito France/Noblet also used the 'on-off switch' attached to the back of the G# touch on some of their tables.

FWIW... for the OP: it is possible for a tech to 'tab' a 'tabless' table if the player wants it. I have done this for folks a few times on vintage horns. The trick becomes balancing the spring tensions on a mechanism which was originally not designed to have that sorta activator. Sometimes the resulting mod is quite successful...sometimes so-so successful.
 
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jbtsax

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I had a customer ask if I could do that on his Conn 6M. Rather than making "tabs" I soldered a "table" under the G# touch using low temp Tix soft solder. It made for a sturdier modification and is easily removable. It is not as adjustable as "tabs" would be, but that didn't turn out to be a problem.

12713
 

Pete Thomas

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This is how I understood it, although I also understand many use 'articulated' in that manner...
I think historically the F# and lower linkage to G# came first, and was called articulated.

Then the G#C# mechanism was invented later, but I suppose is a different thing but is still "articulated" but maybe had a different name to distinguish it. I used two think that was what articulated referred to because we all but ignore the first type because we are unlikely to come across a saxophone without that - and so didn't even call it anything.
 
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Colin the Bear

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I find the tilting table a little more forgiving with finger fudges. Hit C# instead of G# and it's all still fine. A jump from C# to G# and nobody needs to move. I find it easier to slide about on too.
 

Colin the Bear

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I have big hands. When having a nostalgic blow of the old Lafleur/Corton my pinky completely misses the table. The hand/wrist position is very uncomfortable. I don't know how I managed it for so long. The G4M Yani copy is right under my finger.
 
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