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Beginner c flat

allansto

Senior Member
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471
If im asked to play a c flat on my tenor which note do I play ??????????
help please
allansto
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
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B natural.

You'll also see E#, which is F, Fb which is E and then occasionally double flats/sharps whch can also punish your grey cells(e.g. E## is F#).

Search the forum for 'enharmonic' for a few better explanation. But in general go down a semitone for a flat, 2 semitones for a double flat and ignore the names you're used to. Same for sharps, but go up a semitone for each sharp.
 

Dave McLaughlin

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C flat is a semitone below C natural and hence the same as B natural. Imagine a piano keyboard - there's no black key between B and C so they're only a semitone apart. Some people will tell you it's not as simple as that - google "equal temperament" to open a can of worms.

Of course, the tenor sax is a transposing instrument so, if you want a C flat in concert pitch, you need to play a C sharp.
 

Tenor Viol

Full of frets in North Shropshire
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C flat is a semitone below C natural and hence the same as B natural. Imagine a piano keyboard - there's no black key between B and C so they're only a semitone apart. Some people will tell you it's not as simple as that - google "equal temperament" to open a can of worms.

Of course, the tenor sax is a transposing instrument so, if you want a C flat in concert pitch, you need to play a C sharp.
I am going to be a good boy and resist all temptation, well this one at least. :))) For most people (assuming you're not a barber shop singer, an advanced string quartet player, or into playing period instruments) you can probably ignore that issue for the time being... :w00t:
 

Pete Thomas

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I am going to be a good boy and resist all temptation, well this one at least. :))) For most people (assuming you're not a barber shop singer, an advanced string quartet player, or into playing period instruments) you can probably ignore that issue for the time being... :w00t:
At least unti you find you need to play in the key of Gb
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
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I am going to be a good boy and resist all temptation, well this one at least. :))) For most people (assuming you're not a barber shop singer, an advanced string quartet player, or into playing period instruments) you can probably ignore that issue for the time being... :w00t:
All my admiration.

The perfect wrong answer I heard once: "same as a B# of course"

But in case of B# at least we have a different fingering for it.
 
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Tenor Viol

Full of frets in North Shropshire
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All my admiration.

The perfect wrong answer I heard once: "same as a B# of course"

But in case of B# at least we have a differing for it.
Elsewhere I was explaining to someone that how we "spell" intervals harmonically is part of the issue. For example, C=>Eb is a minor third, whereas C=>D# is an augmented second, so context is imporant. In Eb maj or Cmin that interval would be a minor third, because it would be notated with Eb, but in keys such as E min (ascending, D# leading note) it would be a D# and hence an augmented second.
 

aldevis

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elsewhere i was explaining to someone that how we "spell" intervals harmonically is part of the issue. For example, c=>eb is a minor third, whereas c=>d# is an augmented second, so context is imporant. In eb maj or cmin that interval would be a minor third, because it would be notated with eb, but in keys such as e min (ascending, d# leading note) it would be a d# and hence an augmented second.
don't!
 

MandyH

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Elsewhere I was explaining to someone that how we "spell" intervals harmonically is part of the issue. For example, C=>Eb is a minor third, whereas C=>D# is an augmented second, so context is imporant. In Eb maj or Cmin that interval would be a minor third, because it would be notated with Eb, but in keys such as E min (ascending, D# leading note) it would be a D# and hence an augmented second.
I'd just like to say that I understood this!!! :shocked:
2 years ago, even 1 year ago, I would not have had a clue and would have given up at the first mention of "minor" and definitely at the word "augmented". But, having spent the summer brushing up on my music theory, and taking my grade 5 theory last November, I am surprised and amazed that this made sense to me :))) :welldone :thumb:
 

aldevis

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How comes that the alphabet is so minor in England and so phrygian in Germany?

And I always assumed that D major was a bra size.

Can we start a campaign to introduce the Italian notation system? It is much easier.
 

Tenor Viol

Full of frets in North Shropshire
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How comes that the alphabet is so minor in England and so phrygian in Germany?

And I always assumed that D major was a bra size.

Can we start a campaign to introduce the Italian notation system? It is much easier.
Why? Easier or just different? Underlying theory is the same.
 

aldevis

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Why? Easier or just different? Underlying theory is the same.
It sounds better:
do re mi fa sol la si do, do si la sol fa mi re do.

sharps or fifths: fado solre lami si
backwards for flats or fourth: similare so do fa

mi sol sire, falado mi for lines and spaces

And EEEEEEEEEEEEEEFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF doesn't sound half as good as FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
 

aldevis

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If im asked to play a c flat on my tenor which note do I play ??????????
help please
allansto
and the final useless answer is:

You finger an alternative C (RH side key) and release the RH palm
 

Tenor Viol

Full of frets in North Shropshire
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Sorry, but that's a different system. You're referring to what in the UK would be referred to as solmization and solfege which can be used to teach singing and was derived from the use of hexachords, ultimately supposed to be devised by Guido d'Arezzo (C11th????). It was used to teach singing but in Britan it is now fairly uncommon, tending to fall into disuse since the mid-C20th.

Generally, northern European countries use letter names A-G (G was the last to be added and originally assigned the Greek letter 'gamma') and have done so since Medieval times. Southern and eastern European countries have retained the use of solmization.

I don't see it as easier, I just see it as different.
 

aldevis

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Sorry, but that's a different system. You're referring to what in the UK would be referred to as solmization and solfege
That makes sense in terms of "do mobile" or Orff system.
Maybe I don't like the idea that the alphabet is minor (or phrygian in Germany, due to the B/H thing).

And D major still sounds bra-related.
 

Tenor Viol

Full of frets in North Shropshire
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That makes sense in terms of "do mobile" or Orff system.
Maybe I don't like the idea that the alphabet is minor (or phrygian in Germany, due to the B/H thing).

And D major still sounds bra-related.
It's way off topic and I don't want to initiate a protracted and ultimately probably futile exchange. There's a decent book written by an American, Richard Taruskin, published by OUP called, "Music from the Earliest Notation to the Sixteenth Century" in the 'Oxford History of Western Music' series.

This gives a thorough history of the development of the notation that we use and it is a pan-European perspective.
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
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It's way off topic and I don't want to initiate a protracted and ultimately probably futile exchange. There's a decent book written by an American, Richard Taruskin, published by OUP called, "Music from the Earliest Notation to the Sixteenth Century" in the 'Oxford History of Western Music' series.

This gives a thorough history of the development of the notation that we use and it is a pan-European perspective.
I thought that going off topic was compulsory on this forum.
Anyway, I went off topic because I believe that being flexible on music theory is essential to approach a musical issue in different, more creative, ways.
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
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Generally, northern European countries use letter names A-G (G was the last to be added and originally assigned the Greek letter 'gamma') and have done so since Medieval times.
Yes, but watch out for B - it's written as H in the German system and Bb is written B, confuses me no end.
 
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