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BW Not playing G properly

SallySax

Member
Messages
75
I recently purchased a bronze TS-P, which is beautiful, but I suspect there is an air leak. B and A play fine, but add the G, and all sorts of chaos breaks loose! When tested using cigarette paper, there is no 'grab', which is why I suspect a leak.

I'm in Crete, and have no idea of where to find a decent repair man, so if any of you 'old timers' (and I say that with much love and respect!), can help me out, I would be one very happy bunny!

Thank-you x
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
21,947
Re: bauhaus walstein owners club

It was playing before, if I remember correctly. Probably just a spring popped off. Have a good look at the springs and links on/around the G, it's a bit complicated, but you'll probably find the spring on the wrong side of the post, probably from having been caught on a cleaning cloth. If you're careful you should be able to put it back with a small screwdriver, but be careful not to force anyything, or bend it ay more than is absoultely necessary. Don't lever it, for instance.
 

Pete Thomas

Chief of Stuff
Commercial Supporter
Messages
13,979
Re: bauhaus walstein owners club

Seems like it will be a DIY job. Ideally get, Stephen Howard's manual, the Haynes manual on saxophone repair.

Does it seem to leak all the way round oronly leaking one side? (ie fag paper tight on one side loose on the other)
 

SallySax

Member
Messages
75
Re: bauhaus walstein owners club

I'm waiting for the manual to arrive...I think it's coming snail mail, on a very tiny snail!

It seems to me that the paper is loose on one side, and on visual inspection (no leak light), the pad does not appear to be seating properly across the tone hole. The sax was playing perfectly when we left the UK, having been in the care of a reputable repairer for a tweak or two, and I took it on the flight as hand luggage, so it wasn't thrown around in the hold. I'm beginning to think the Alto is getting out at night and doing bad things to the tenor!

Thanks gentlemen - I've got a magnifying glass, and I'm off to inspect :)
 

saxyman

Member
Messages
267
Re: bauhaus walstein owners club

Hi Sally
Is this the same problem that you have had since you purchased it and sent it back to retailer?
If it is can you email them and ask them what was the problem previously and what did they do to resolve it?
This might give you some pointer as to what you should be looking at.
Don't be disappointed with the BH I have one as well and is very nice especially at the price.
Please let us know how you get on.
Dave.
 

johnboy

Senior Member
Messages
1,179
Re: bauhaus walstein owners club

It was playing before, if I remember correctly. Probably just a spring popped off. Have a good look at the springs and links on/around the G, it's a bit complicated, but you'll probably find the spring on the wrong side of the post, probably from having been caught on a cleaning cloth. If you're careful you should be able to put it back with a small screwdriver, but be careful not to force anyything, or bend it ay more than is absoultely necessary. Don't lever it, for instance.
Hi Sally/Kev,
When it comes to springs that have moved off of their posts, I use a piece of plastic coated closure wire that comes with bags of sliced bread etc, sealing them again after they are opened. Bend it in half, slip the looped end over the spring and pull it gently to maneuver the spring back into position. No scratches or damaged springs.

John :);}
 

SallySax

Member
Messages
75
Re: bauhaus walstein owners club

Hi Sally
Is this the same problem that you have had since you purchased it and sent it back to retailer?
If it is can you email them and ask them what was the problem previously and what did they do to resolve it?
This might give you some pointer as to what you should be looking at.
Don't be disappointed with the BH I have one as well and is very nice especially at the price.
Please let us know how you get on.
Dave.
The original issue turned out to be more than a sticking pad, and to cut a long story short, the sax magician took it apart, reassembled it and tweaked all it's important little places. I saw and heard him play it when I went to collect (I'm shy to play in front of anyone!), and he certainly put it through it's paces. I have emailed him, and am now awaiting a reply.

If I can play a piece without using 'G', it's still lovely, hence my frustration!

Thank-you :)
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
21,947
Re: bauhaus walstein owners club

John, great idea. Thanks.

I usually use a small crochet hook, should have mentioned it earlier. And you can file a groove into the flat end to use as a spring pusher.

Sally, When you're checking, finger a G, then without changing anything finger G#. That's the key that's held closed by a spring.
When you play an F# or lower, it's forced closed by the bar across it. But when you play a G it's only the spring holding it closed.
 

AlanU

Member
Messages
655
Re: bauhaus walstein owners club

Quite so Kev
So Sally, finger and blow G and with your right hand press down on the G# pad, and see if that makes a difference.
 

SallySax

Member
Messages
75
Re: bauhaus walstein owners club

Hi Sally/Kev,
When it comes to springs that have moved off of their posts, I use a piece of plastic coated closure wire that comes with bags of sliced bread etc, sealing them again after they are opened. Bend it in half, slip the looped end over the spring and pull it gently to maneuver the spring back into position. No scratches or damaged springs.

John :);}
Excellent idea - thank-you!
 

johnboy

Senior Member
Messages
1,179
Re: bauhaus walstein owners club

Kev,
With the wire it is safer and easier, especially for newbies. No slips and no scratches!

John :);}
 

SallySax

Member
Messages
75
Re: bauhaus walstein owners club

Gentlemen,

Thank-you for all your helpful hints. So far as I can see, all the springs are correctly seated. I now have a selection of plastic coated wires in my Jack Daniels tin where I keep all my 'saxy' bits ;)

After paying extra-special attention to what is going on, today during practice, I noticed that when moving from a Bflat played with the bis to a G, the odds of hitting the G first time changed to 9 from 10 correct, and indeed, as long as I had the bis down, I could hit the G first time from just about anywhere. However, without the bis, the original issue reared it's ugly head, which leads me to deduce that the problem may lie with the second tone hole and pad :confused: I also noticed that Fsharp is sometimes dodgy, but not as consistently as the G.

Back to the fag paper test. Bis down = pad grabs like a monkey to a banana. A key down (no bis) = no grab.

On the B-W, the G pearl key lies across the second pad, so theoretically, depressing the key should give a tighter seal - shouldn't it?. I can play an A, no problem, octave up and back.

I'm so frustrated that I can't see what's wrong, and my ears are deeply offended by the sound (or lack of) from this note. I'm pretty sure I can hear the sound of sniggering coming from my Alto...

Still waiting for the manual to arrive <big sigh>

Thank-you
 

Pete Thomas

Chief of Stuff
Commercial Supporter
Messages
13,979
Re: bauhaus walstein owners club

Sounds to me like the felt has fallen off the A key, or has got a bit compressed.

While pressing down the G, check the A key for leaks with a cigarette paper.

If so stick a postage stamp or two under the A key until the A is being closed by the G.

If that helps, try to find a piece of felt or cork the right thickness and glue in with some contact cement.
 

Chris J

Member
Messages
211
Re: bauhaus walstein owners club

If so stick a postage stamp or two under the A key until the A is being closed by the G.
A useful bit of repair material for the sax case is a small block of post-it notes. Great for lost felts and corks for a first-aid to get you through the following few hours.

Find the right numbers of post-it notes using the non-sticky side that balances the regulation to accomodate the lost material you are replacing, then cut a stack of the same amount from the sticky side and place it on the bigger of the two surface areas that connect, and hopefully last you the night.

Cheaper than postage stamps - the way their cost is going...

Chris
 

SallySax

Member
Messages
75
Re: bauhaus walstein owners club

Thanks for that tip Pete,

The postage came to €1.40! I have fashioned a Heath Robinson emergency repair by using a tiny piece from a 0.5mm mouthpiece patch. There is cork on the back of the key, but by adding the tiny patch, the pad passed the fag paper test :) It's much better now, but still not quite right...

Next time we go out, I'll get some contact adhesive, and have a go at sticking on a bit of felt. Not easy when you have sausage fingers like mine!

Sallie x
 

Chris J

Member
Messages
211
Re: bauhaus walstein owners club

Though felt is ideal for feel and mechanical noise - it can be fiddly to get perfectly right (too much and other pads don't close, too little and the pad beneath doen't close - you will read about it in the manual...) and the final precision tweak might involve ironing the felt when on, or bending keys.

If you are not up for that, and the felt does not work (and the Retsina has not gone to screw cap) cut a slither of cork slightly thicker than needed and glue on with contact adhesive and sandpaper / check / sandpaper / check until it works. If you sand too much, just do it again!

Chris
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
21,947
Re: bauhaus walstein owners club

Next time we go out, I'll get some contact adhesive, and have a go at sticking on a bit of felt. Not easy when you have sausage fingers like mine!

Sallie x
Cut the felt oversize. put the contact adhesive on, but don't bother waiting for it to dry. Put a bit of cling film over the key cup. Slide the felt, sticky side up onto the clingfilm whicle holding the key closed so there's a big gap. Adjust so it's centred under the A key. Press down and hold for a little. Hold it clamped shut with string or something until the glue sets. Allow extra time. Then use a craft knife of single edged razorblade to trim the felt. Adjust thickness by sanding the feltwith a strip of 400 wet & dry between the keycup and key. Don't put the paper in the wrong way up...
 

SallySax

Member
Messages
75
Re: bauhaus walstein owners club

*Whispering very quietly...*

I think I've done it! Felt, micropore tape, clingfilm, contact adhesive, long-nose tweezers and a steady(ish) hand. Played fine, aside from operator error on upper G :). Will sneak up on it again tomorrow, but so far, so good!

Thanks again for all your helpful suggestions :D
 
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