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Buescher Snap In Pads

Melissa

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Hi all :)

I have a dilemma and i could do with some help please, I have been very lucky to get myself a rare New Aristocrat in frosted silver plate :rolleyes: , standard bell with no gold wash- unless it is under the crud somewhere! now this is what I have been advised to do:

1/ (and freak out time) cut the spud out and install standard or premium pads....(not really for me)

Or 2/ Buy some Pisoni and punch out a larger hole to accept he original snap on.

I sell to some real collectors and they usually wish for original all the way, however, it has come to my attention that the snap on pads from Music medic are not acceptable quality, with poor colour variations and thicker stell backs than the originals, Curt has advised to use the white Roo's and he would kindly punch out the centres for me....That's nice of him!

Ok, yes, white pads look utterly lush against the frosted silver plate where as the originals are a browny tan colour, and yes they look how it ought to I think, I have seen many vintage saxes with white pads, I wonder if the original snap ons where white too, but these on my sax look original, they must be because they have been eaten away by the pad worm I guess.

I could repad with standard as per #2 above, and if the eventual buyer always has the option of putting original snap ons in.

Although I am dismantling this and cleaning it, I am not at the stage to be attempting a repad on this, even @griff136 has said it is no easy task so I am going to give it to someone that can do it perfect first time.... but it is up to me to choose which way I go about padding.

So please, I would dearly like to hear your professional advice regards this.
 

kevgermany

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Maybe do the cleaning and polishing, find a buyer and give the buyer the choice.
 

thomsax

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Are you going to use your Beuscher or is a "keeper" that you would keep in original condition? If you are going to have your sax in original condition you should re-pad it with Beuscher "Snap-On" type of pads with metal back. Otherwise I would replace the pads with a good traditional pad. Glue the pads but let the "peg" stay. The white pads are cool but they are not doing the job better than a good ordinary pad. All TTs I have seen had brown pads. My Beuscher c soprnao has the old type of pads but my Buesher TT mod LP-122 Bb soprano has modern brown pads with plastic resonators. IMO an ordinary good pad installed with glue/shellac is better than the "Snap-On" system.
 

jbtsax

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I have done restorations on both a True Tone Alto and Soprano. My choice has been to use white roos with a larger hole punched out to accommodate the snap in resos. I like to polish the original snapins and then re-plate with my Caswell Plug-N-Plate if necessary. The photos below show how the white roos look against the silver finish.



 

Melissa

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Northamptonshire UK
Maybe do the cleaning and polishing, find a buyer and give the buyer the choice.

I really like this idea but I would dearly like to play it, just to see if I like it.

Are you going to use your Beuscher or is a "keeper" that you would keep in original condition? If you are going to have your sax in original condition you should re-pad it with Beuscher "Snap-On" type of pads with metal back. Otherwise I would replace the pads with a good traditional pad. Glue the pads but let the "peg" stay. The white pads are cool but they are not doing the job better than a good ordinary pad. All TTs I have seen had brown pads. My Beuscher c soprnao has the old type of pads but my Buesher TT mod LP-122 Bb soprano has modern brown pads with plastic resonators. IMO an ordinary good pad installed with glue/shellac is better than the "Snap-On" system.

This is the preferred route in installing originals, I have just heard from Ferree's and they advise theirs are good quality. I have heard that some use the old snap in system, but also add some shellac because I am told the tend to rotate?! Is it a "keeper" well, perhaps once I have it up and playing I may well do so, as usual I am spoilt for choice but I do prefer Tenor, but then, they all look so nice all huddled together!

I have done restorations on both a True Tone Alto and Soprano. My choice has been to use white roos with a larger hole punched out to accommodate the snap in resos. I like to polish the original snapins and then re-plate with my Caswell Plug-N-Plate if necessary. The photos below show how the white roos look against the silver finish.

You really should not do this! they do look exceptionally nice :) lovely work JBT!



[/QUOTE]
 
Messages
273
Locality
Cumbria, UK
You could get the Buescher style pads from Ferrees.
I'd keep the snap in's if they are there. When half are missing it becomes a problem.
If you keep them you need to keep the resonators with the key it came from as they are different sizes.
Some folk make up their own pads after keeping the metal back collected from old Buescher pad sets that have been replaced. The metal backs can make quite a difference!
 

Chris J

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Southampton, UK
My first repair project (under good instruction!) was an old bent Buescher TT sop. All the original snap-ons were used. I started to shellac the pads in, but then tried just seeing what happened with snaps alone. They were absolutely fine, and still play on it 8 years later. I am pretty sure I used Ferrees pads.

Before



After
 

jbtsax

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I always prefer to use shellac with the snap on resos. It enables me to make small adjustments to the pads and work at the highest level. Soft pads and added of finger pressure will enable a sax to play without leveling toneholes and doing painstaking leveling of the pads, but when using firmer pads like the Music Medic white roos that last bit of adjustment is crutial IMO.
 

Chris J

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Do you ever find that once you have set your pad perfectly, applying the snap-on changes the way the leather lies on the pad from the pressure of the resonator? I seem to remember that this frustrated me once or twice, which suggests to me the pad was a tad thicker than the snap on wanted.

As the sop was my learning piece, detail was meticulous, and my teacher's watch words were, and I am sure still are 'picky, picky, picky' which loosely translates as nothing less than perfect will do!

Tone holes were levelled, pad cups were levelled, all hinge tubes were swedged to the rods (which were straightened or replaced), leaving the keywork oversized to the posts, so filed to fit exactly so no play. I was taught that once this level of detail is attained, getting a pad to seal is so much easier! I makes me truly appreciate the skill of the professional repairer.
 

chicagojimmyjames

New Member
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Hey everybody. I'm new to the forum, and also relatively new to playing the sax -- but I love it, as I'm sure you all do too.

That's a beautiful sax in that picture -- I love the white pads with the clean and bright silver. I have a similar Buescher that I've decided to restore, although mine looks like it has seen a lot of wear and tear over the years. I did not know that white pads were even still an option. I'll look into that... :)

Anyway, I'm writing because I was pondering that same dilemma... keep the snaps or remove them??? ... and I wanted to share a small discovery.

Today I watched a video by Matt Stohrer (hope I have that right) on youtube, and he mentioned that the buttons are silver soldered in, which would take so much heat to remove, he said, that you are bound to damage the outside of the cup (and this is the reason that many of the buttons simply get ground off).

While I know he is an amazing expert and dedicated craftsman, I actually found that this was not true about the solder. I decided to see how much heat was required by putting one of the smaller, less visible cups to the test. As it turns out, the button needed very little heat to come loose. I have to guess that this was lead solder from the olden days, as it melted with far less heat than even the modern "easy-flow" solders used on copper pipe.

Since only about half of my key cups still have buttons, I think I'm likely going to remove the remaining ones. Just wanted to let you know that this is very easy (non damaging) option.

jj
 

jbtsax

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The fact is that some were soft soldered and some were silver soldered. I have found both types. If half of the "spuds" are already gone, removing the rest is a viable option IMO.
 

thomsax

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IMO: A Buesher without the "Snap-On" system is a better player compared to a Buescher with the "Snap-On" system. I've Bueschers from the 20's with modern pads glued in with shellac and with the "spruds" in the keycups removed. My collectable Bueschers are with the "Snap-On" system intact.
 

jbtsax

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There are two likely causes if the saxes containing snap-on resonators don't perform as well as those with modern pads that have resonators to begin with.
  1. The snap-on's which are attached to the keycup through a hole in the pad may be leaking---especially if they were installed without using shellac.
  2. The snap-on resonators are typically smaller than the resonators that come in the same size pads. The more "reflective" surface, the less dampening of the sound energy.
 

Melissa

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Northamptonshire UK
Just an update, my New Aristocrat is now complete with all snaps and spuds, I have black pisoni pads in to match the rollers and it looks lovely, I must admit I have found it beautiful to play, altissimos are fab and has beautiful depth on the lower notes. It is definitely one of the nicest vintage saxes I have played and one of the "mintiest" I shall get around to adding some pics soon.
 

thomsax

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Just an update, my New Aristocrat is now complete with all snaps and spuds, I have black pisoni pads in to match the rollers and it looks lovely, I must admit I have found it beautiful to play, altissimos are fab and has beautiful depth on the lower notes. It is definitely one of the nicest vintage saxes I have played and one of the "mintiest" I shall get around to adding some pics soon.

Sounds good!
 

thomsax

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Messages
4,794
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Sweden
There are two likely causes if the saxes containing snap-on resonators don't perform as well as those with modern pads that have resonators to begin with.
  1. The snap-on's which are attached to the keycup through a hole in the pad may be leaking---especially if they were installed without using shellac.
  2. The snap-on resonators are typically smaller than the resonators that come in the same size pads. The more "reflective" surface, the less dampening of the sound energy.
What do you think about the pads with metal back? Sometimes the "Snap-On" resonators fall out. And if the pads is not "glued" the pad fall out as well.
 

jbtsax

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What do you think about the pads with metal back? Sometimes the "Snap-On" resonators fall out. And if the pads is not "glued" the pad fall out as well.
Some of the "Buescher purists" insist that replacement pads be installed that have metal backs like the originals. They claim that the added weight to the key gives the proper "feel" and the extremely flat back of the pad is better for installation purposes. My experience is that the added weight is negligible and that any good modern pad glued to the keycup has a sufficiently flat cardboard backing.
 
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