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British vs Yank Poetry

Hal the Elder

New Member
Messages
163
Everybody says how wonderful American poets Walt Whitman and Carl Sandberg are.

In my opinion, they're not qualified to shine Rudyard Kipling's shoes!

My favorite Kipling poems are those about the British military campaigns in India, Afghanistan, South Africa (Boer Wars) and others of the late Victorian era that built the Empire. (Danny Deever, Gunga Din, Boots, Screw Guns, Fuzzy Wuzzy, etc)

It's truly Mens' poetry, not wimpy sonnets from Keats & the like.

That's All...
HAL
 
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kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
21,947
You could add Wilfred Owen and Siegfried Sassoon to the list. I was forced to study them for English lit at school and hated it.

It was only a lot later that I realised why I hated it so much - it was the reality of war that the superbly written poetry brought to my teenage senses. I still shudder when I hear the words Dulce et decorum est....

Kipling's great, even if he's rather jingoistic. The Jungle Book was my favourite as a kid (cubs/scouts), even before the Disney cartoon film was made (super music in there...). And it was a major event in my life when I finally saw Kipling's 'great grey-green, greasy Limpopo River, all set about with fever-trees' in real life.
 

Hal the Elder

New Member
Messages
163
Yes, Rudyard was jingoistic...not unlike our Teddy Roosevelt!

HAL
 
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Jules

Formerly known as "nachoman"
Messages
4,622
And it was a major event in my life when I finally saw Kipling's 'great grey-green, greasy Limpopo River, all set about with fever-trees' in real life.
Been reading those to my kids- wonderful stuff and reads aloud superbly. Poet-wise- Gentlemen- I give you.....William Blake!
 

Tenor Viol

Full of frets in North Shropshire
Subscriber
Messages
5,946
I've sung Vaughan Williams' Sea Symphony several times, most recently in March this year. This is a settign of some Walt Whitman verse for SATB choir, sop and baritone soloist and orchestra. I think the texts used, combined with RVW's music is very evocative and a style which Hollywood I think picked up a few decades later.
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,125
I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political.....
 

llamedos

Senior Member
Messages
431
Before the Skabertawe Light Cavalry springs into action, can we please spare a thought for the Welsh master-wordsmith Dylan Thomas? If only for "Under Milk Wood" which conjures up some fantastic images just by the juxtaposition of words - who can ever forget "bible-black"?

Dave
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,125
I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political, I will not go political.....
But a social-historical analysis by a fine contemporary thinker might help:
Since I could not find the quote from "the man that would be king" on 30" we have an accurate and articulated comment.

 
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jeremyjuicewah

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,890
Lots of old Kippers stuff is great, just re-read barrack ballads and others a couple of weeks ago. He is prolly my fave poet but cant ignore that he wrote a huge amount of bilge too. I Like all the barrack room ballads but some of his epic tales are long and trite and unworthy. Would rate dear old Emily Dickinson very high, and Alfred Noyse too. But how about Darwins descendant, Francis Cornford, "To a fat woman seen from a train." We had that one read at my mums funeral. She was always quoting it. It is a hilarious piece of pompous, pretentious cr*p that falls some way short even of dogerell. I read a plaintiff piece by a would be poet who moaned that he lived in age when its impossible to get anything published and how he wished he lived in an age when you could get anything published, meaning of course that imbecile tripe, "Oh fat white woman whom nobody loves, why do you wander the fields in gloves, missing so much and much".
Have a good weekend,
Mike
 

TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,219
Before the Skabertawe Light Cavalry springs into action, can we please spare a thought for the Welsh master-wordsmith Dylan Thomas? If only for "Under Milk Wood" which conjures up some fantastic images just by the juxtaposition of words - who can ever forget "bible-black"?

Dave
Dylan Thomas's birthplace is approximately 800m away from where we live, and some of his poetry is written on stones in the local Cwmdonkin park adjacent. Such is life in an "Ugly, lovely town"......
 

Hal the Elder

New Member
Messages
163
HEY ALDEVIS: Great shot of Afghanistan... thanks for posting the Video!

Afghanistan has never been conquered, and may never be.

Genghis Khan couldn't do it, the British couldn't do it, the mighty Russians gave up, and now it's America's turn.

Why is this such a formidable enemy?

Because the country is Tribal and the terrain is Impossible!

To quote a line from Kipling, about the British campaign:

"When wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains
And the women come out to cut up your remains
Just roll to your Rifle and blow out your brains,
And go to your God like a Soldier!
A Soldier, a Soldier, a Soldier of the Queen!"

HAL
 
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saxplorer

Senior Member
Messages
879
I recently read "Kim" for the first time and was truly astonished by it. I expected something hatefully colonial, and, yes, jingoistic. True, it never challenges the right of the British to be in, and governing India, but the thing that astonished me was the portrayal of and affection for a immensely diverse, multicultural, vibrant, energetic land. I was left in no doubt that Kipling loved India deeply: even though he inevitably started from a British perspective, I found a great deal of understanding of people of many kinds.

If you haven't read it, I would recommend reading it, it may overturn some preconceptions.
 

Hal the Elder

New Member
Messages
163
HEY TARGA...I KNOW!

It's "The Old Possum's Book Of Practical Cats"!

I attended the performance of CATS three times in Hollywood's Ahmanson Theater...once with my First Wife, once with a cat-loving Intermarriage Girlfriend, and once with my Present Wife.

I first attended CATS with Wife # 1 on my 50th birthday in 1986....a Limousine picked us up at my home and took us to the Thetater, then took us home after the performance. We were really given the eye when the Chauffer opened the door for us at the Theater! ("Who's THAT?")

Thank You Andrew Lloyd Weber!

HAL
 
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spike

Old Indian
Messages
2,256
Nice Dobson you've got there Hal - Looks like an over 18 inch mirror at least - and I guess you're living in a fairly light pollution free zone "I got my Mojave working" - who needs poetry when you've got the heavens above in your own backyard.
 

Hal the Elder

New Member
Messages
163
YO SPIKE,

That was one of five 16" Dobsonian Reflectors I owned. It was a Meade LightBridge with a 16" f/4.5 Primary Mirror. Three were Truss-Tube and two were Rigid-Tube dobs.

I have owned the following Dobsonian Reflectors:

20" Obsession Truss Dob
17.5" Discovery Solid Tube Dob
16" Meade StarFinder Solid Tube Dob
16" NightSky Truss Dob
16" Meade LightBridge Truss Dob
16" Meade LightBridge Truss Dob #2
16" Discovery Split-Tube Dob
15" Discovery Solid Tube Dob
14" Orion Intelliscope Truss Dob
12.5" Discovery Solid Tube Dob
12" Orion Intelliscope Truss Dob

12" Meade LX200 Schmidt-Cassegrain Telescope (SCT) with Computerized Locating and Tracking
12" Meade LX200 SCT, Computerized
11" Celestron CPC1100, Computerized
11" Celestron CPC1100 Comupterized (#2)
10" Meade LX200 Computerized
10" Meade LX90 Computerized
10" Meade 2010 Non-Computerized Locating, Auto Tracking
8" Meade LX90 Computerized
8" Meade Non-Computerized Locating, Auto Tracking
8" Celestron NexStar Computerized
8" Home-Built Newtonian Equatorial Reflector, using Cave Optics
6" Meade Equatorial Refractor Computerized
6" Celestron Newtonian Equatorial Reflector (Manual Slow-Motion Drives)
5" Orion Maksutov Telescope (Spotting Scope)
3" Sears Refractor Outfit (Manual Slow-Motion Drives)
3" Edmund Newtonian Equatorial Reflector
Coronado 60mm Solar Telescope with Tunable H-Alpha Filter
Miscellaneous small Alt-Azimuth Mounted Refractors

Yes, our 3000-foot High Desert location provides great viewing, especially of deep-sky objects, such as Galaxies, Nebulas, Open and Globular Clusters, etc. Planetary views are amazing!

We always schedule our Star Parties on the Saturday nights nearest the New Moon (no moon), because Moonlight is the ENEMY of all Amateur Astronomers!

HAL
 
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Tenor Viol

Full of frets in North Shropshire
Subscriber
Messages
5,946
Hmm.. makes my 10" Newtonian, 8" Celestron, and 4" short-focus refractor seem somewhat inadequate! Sadly skies like that are hard to find in the UK.
 
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