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Brass Brass Again.

O.C.V.

Member
Messages
113
It must be twelve years since I played a brass instrument, trumpet,cornet and tenor horn, mainly in brass bands but also some big band work and a little orchestral. I recently got a hankering to try it again so rescued my old cornet from my grandson. It took a little organising as he lives 200 miles away, but I got it yesterday. He hadn't used it for a couple of years so it needed valves cleaning and oiling and the slides freeing and greasing. Then I was ready to have a go. Oh dear, it was never as hard as this. It's going to take some time to get my embouchure back, if ever, but I'll persevere with long tones on harmonics to see if I make any progress. If anyone has any advice on keeping sax and cornet going together I'd be very grateful. Meanwhile back to the Charles Colin book.
Regards,
O.C.V.
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
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12,125
Got a trumpet last week after 30 years. I know how you feel. My 4th line D is sooooo flat....
 

Greg Strange

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,077
Got a trumpet last week after 30 years. I know how you feel. My 4th line D is sooooo flat....
I, too, after nearly 3 decades re-joined the "Coil of Torture" club last year...

look out Herb Alpert...:)))

Cheers,

Greg S.
 

TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,219
For what it is worth it is always better to start practising trumpet first and then play sax afterwards. Playing trumpet first will have a positive effect on your sax embouchure but it does not work the other way around. When I had same day lessons in both I would always have my trumpet lesson first. If you play sax to start and then try to get a decent sound out of a trumpet you may be a little disappointed!

Also the Jazz Method for Saxophone (John O'Neill) has a trumpet equivalent written by Steve Waterman - very good it is too!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jazz-Method-Trumpet-Tutor-Book/dp/0946535256
 
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Di in France

Senior Member
Messages
619
This is interesting for me as I've got a flugel horn languishing under my bed! I played tenor and flugel horn in brass bands all through my childhood and into my twenties, and often thought of restarting. I've only been playing sax for a few years, but it feels 'right', if you know what I mean. The last time I got the flugel out, I was shocked at how difficult it was to play it - lol, I suppose a few decades off can have that effect! :shocked:
 

oldblower

Member
Messages
99
Tom gave me this advice as have gone the other way played trumpet and added the sax, i also make sure i leave a good 3/4 hours after playing the sax before i pick up the trumpet again. good luck with it. ;}

For what it is worth it is always better to start practising trumpet first and then play sax afterwards. Playing trumpet first will have a positive effect on your sax embouchure but it does not work the other way around. When I had same day lessons in both I would always have my trumpet lesson first. If you play sax to start and then try to get a decent sound out of a trumpet you may be a little disappointed!

Also the Jazz Method for Saxophone (John O'Neill) has a trumpet equivalent written by Steve Waterman - very good it is too!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jazz-Method-Trumpet-Tutor-Book/dp/0946535256
 

baritonesax

Member
Messages
256
I've got a bass trombone on the way to me in the post. God help me. But I'm sure it's somewhat analogous to a baritone sax as a trumpet is to an alto - as per Tom's post above.
 

Sue

If at first you don't succeed try try try a Gin
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2,362
I went to see/hear Grimethorpe Colliery Band at the weekend and now have a hankering after a trombone. Chris Gomersall played a wonderful solo but I can't remember the piece!!
 

old git

Tremendous Bore
Messages
5,545
Grab yourself some JJ Johnson, Kai Winding, Jimmy Cleveland, Juan Tizol and Bob Brookmeyer, Sue.
 

Sue

If at first you don't succeed try try try a Gin
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Grab yourself some JJ Johnson, Kai Winding, Jimmy Cleveland, Juan Tizol and Bob Brookmeyer, Sue.
Thanks - I've out them on my ever growing list of 'must listen to' before 21st December! I'm sure i've come across Bob Brookmeyer before - the name rings a bell or two.
 

Sue

If at first you don't succeed try try try a Gin
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Sue

If at first you don't succeed try try try a Gin
Subscriber
Messages
2,362
Very nice Tom. Just listened to him and Stan Getz doing Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square on Spotify - beautiful. Now listening to The Blues Hot & Cold Remastered. I'm ignorant about trombones (other than liking the sound they make) and don't know what a valve trombone is. Off to do internet searching on different 'bones.
 

TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,219
2 main tenor trombones:

1. Slide trombone - where notes are made by combination of embouchure and slide position
2. Valve trombone - notes made by combination of embouchure and valves - just like a trumpet - 3 buttons which lengthen the overall tube length.

People would think that valve trombones are easier as notes are made using valves of set length, but slide trombone is very easy really.
 

jrintaha

Senior Member
Messages
283
How much do you reckon taking up the slide trombone would confuse a beginner's sax embouchure? I assume it would develop the same muscles and awareness / control of the throat, tongue and larynx, helping with the sax as well.

How I got the idea was I saw a video demo of Yamaha's Silent Brass, and it really goes quiet as a whisper, that's definitely something I could play late at night. The slide trombone would probably train my ear quite a bit. And since my wife's starting with the cello, I could share her pain of always being out of tune. :)

Also, is getting a Bb/F trombone worth the extra price? Does it add more hassle and/or make it easier to break and/or more difficult to maintain? Or should a beginner not worry about the extension and just get a regular Bb trombone?


Cheers,
Jori
 

TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,219
1. A slide trombone is a good instrument!
2. No problem with embouchure - I have played sax and trombone regularly on the same day. My usual advice is to play brass first and then leave a gap for embouchure to adjust for sax. The other way around is less adviseable as it is harder to immediately adjust to a tighter embouchure after playing sax - for both trombone and trumpet, which will be too loose for a while after playing sax.
3. Trombones can be used with mutes, especially practice mutes, which severely reduce volume produced, no problem.
4. I have 5 slide trombones and sold my only Bb/F trombone - more complicated and fine if using in an orchestral setting, but unsure whether they are worth the extra money.
5. John Packer/Rath trombones are quite superb - leave all others in their wake, like Vincent Bach, Yamaha and others.

Hope this helps
Tom
 

baritonesax

Member
Messages
256
Hi Jori, I've been playing a bass trombone for 3 weeks now, and can report that it doesn't seem to cause any embouchure complications when I go back to the bari or the other reeds that I play. In fact, it's much less troublesome than doubling clarinet / sop sax and bari.

As for playing Bb / F trombone - that's up to you. My mission is to play bass trombone so I found an old Boosey Imperial single rotor bass - the cheapest way to do it - and am enjoying it greatly.
 

jbtsax

Well-Known Member
Subscriber
Messages
8,010
There can be a lot of positive transfer between tone production playing a brass instrument and playing the saxophone. Skills such as hearing the note before you play, setting the oral cavity (tongue position), and adjusting the airstream that are required to play a brass instrument also help to improve your saxophone playing.

In my circle of friends who were also school band teachers, the "trombone" was affectionately know as:

"a wind driven, manually operated, pitch approximator".
 
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