Playing Biting when you play the saxophone

[Pete Thomas]

I've just done a blog all about biting and why you should:

Why you should bite when playing the saxophone (caution: rant) - Taming The Saxophone

Is Pete Thomas really advising that you should bite when playing the saxophone? Read on to discover why he says something so preposterous.

tamingthesaxophone.com

Hopefully we can find something to disagree about

 

[Direct Current]

Great article. I'm working on my tone now. This covers a lot of my questions.

 

[skeller047]

Nice blog post, you make a good point. I like to think about exerting pressure with my lips rather than my jaw. The jaw puts my lip in the correct place, then I seal around the mouthpiece and make a firm cushion with my bottom lip.

If I play for a long time, I feel the burn in my cheeks and the muscles around my mouth. The natural thing to do is compensate by increasing pressure with the jaw muscles, which is exactly the wrong thing to do. So I just stop playing and rest a bit.

I have a strong memory of playing for high school and college graduations - my high school class had 1200 students, and I got hired by my teacher to play for various college graduation ceremonies. The graduates marched slowly the length of a football field. Pomp and Circumstance figured prominently… a real chop buster for clarinet, because it’s long and strong in the lower chalumeau register. So the clarinet section invariably split in half for these ceremonies, left stand partner on one chorus, right on the other. We often had to play that refrain for 20 or 30 minutes, as the graduates got their names called and received their diplomas. Aching cheeks for sure.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Nice blog post, you make a good point. I like to think about exerting pressure with my lips rather than my jaw. The jaw puts my lip in the correct place, then I seal around the mouthpiece and make a firm cushion with my bottom lip.

If I play for a long time, I feel the burn in my cheeks and the muscles around my mouth. The natural thing to do is compensate by increasing pressure with the jaw muscles, which is exactly the wrong thing to do. So I just stop playing and rest a bit.

I have a strong memory of playing for high school and college graduations - my high school class had 1200 students, and I got hired by my teacher to play for various college graduation ceremonies. The graduates marched slowly the length of a football field. Pomp and Circumstance figured prominently… a real chop buster for clarinet, because it’s long and strong in the lower chalumeau register. So the clarinet section invariably split in half for these ceremonies, left stand partner on one chorus, right on the other. We often had to play that refrain for 20 or 30 minutes, as the graduates got their names called and received their diplomas. Aching cheeks for sure.

This is where I am too. The word “biting” suggests little or no lower lip/cheek musculature support and a whole load of lower teeth providing the control. Like biting a cushion against the reed.
The “pout” embouchure surely uses little or no teeth/jaw until the added support is needed at whatever point in the range they’re needed to provide “backup”.

 

[Woodpad]

The upper teeth and lip have to push against the mouthpiece to counter the force from the lower teeth and lip. The muscles involved are used in the downwards part of yes shaking. Some muscles in the neck with some obscure Latin names.

When you keep your neck like a bull these muscles have to work in an awkward position and will hurt after some time. When you see a saxophone teacher with a bulls neck do not expect him to learn you a proper stance to play the saxophone.

 

[Tamiflu]

Excellent article, thank you !!

 

[rhysonsax]

I enjoyed the post very much.

One thought is that some players (guilty m'lud) have too much tension in their embouchure and probably more generally (neck, shoulders, throat ...). This can result in a thin tone.

I think that it is possible to be too tense without necessarily biting but perhaps these aspects get confused in descriptions and instructions to students.

Rhys

 

[JayeNM]

...my sax playing always bites....

 

[ellinas]

Trying not to bite led me to use harder and harder reeds. Lots of air ... one dimensional dynamics ...
A good friend persuaded me to try -just once- a medium opening with lighter reeds.
The transition wasn't easy.... I had to control the super sensitive reed with my jaw. Not bite. It would deaden the sound. Not relaxed... or my mask would be over the place.
After some time with "bend-up" occasional attacks ... and working on my precision ... I'm not coming back.
I have great sense of dynamics and I can "sculpture" my sound.

I almost bite, when I go low. And I take my lip just a lip further. The low notes are stable./
I also have a firm fat lip over my bottom teeth. This embouchoure is so open and versatile.

So +1 from me for "precision bottom lip pressure" and light reeds 🙂
If you call that biting, count me in!

 

[Pete Thomas]

So +1 from me for "precision bottom lip pressure" and light reeds 🙂
If you call that biting, count me in!

Yes, that’s what I call biting. But good biting.

 

[IGoddard]

Really good read. I recently stumbled across the Dr Wally Wallace videos on youtube and he provides some tonal exercise which I've really useful to control the amount of pressure and to find the correct level of biting across the range. It's essentially a scale/long tone exercise that has you revisit low Bb before each note.

 

[Wonko]

Really good read. I recently stumbled across the Dr Wally Wallace videos on youtube and he provides some tonal exercise which I've really useful to control the amount of pressure and to find the correct level of biting across the range. It's essentially a scale/long tone exercise that has you revisit low Bb before each note.

I've used this as the first step in my warm-up for a few weeks now. Dr Wally has a video on warm-up where he advised this. I think this will be good to build up my foundation (breath support, voicing, tuning). And that is what I need now.

 

[dexdex]

Pete, thanks for this very good article.
Having started on classical clarinet, "bite less" would be the best summary of 4 decades of my trying to play the saxophone. Tenor has been the biggest challenge.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Pete, thanks for this very good article.
Having started on classical clarinet, "bite less" would be the best summary of 4 decades of my trying to play the saxophone. Tenor has been the biggest challenge.

+1

 

[Manco]

 

[skeller047]

I dunno about that picture. I personally can consume several hundred Newtons at once. Fig Newtons of course…

 

[Manco]

I dunno about that picture. I personally can consume several hundred Newtons at once. Fig Newtons of course…

Fig Newtons are made with fig paste, which is a good source of dietary fiber. Fiber is important for digestive health and can help regulate blood sugar levels and promote satiety. Low in Saturated Fat: These cookies typically contain lower amounts of saturated fat compared to some other cookies.🙂

 

[mizmar]

700 Newtons = 157.4 in old money (lbf)

 

[Jeanette]

I enjoyed the post very much.

One thought is that some players (guilty m'lud) have too much tension in their embouchure and probably more generally (neck, shoulders, throat ...). This can result in a thin tone.

I think that it is possible to be too tense without necessarily biting but perhaps these aspects get confused in descriptions and instructions to students.

Rhys

That's me!