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Saxophones Best lightweight modern tenor recommendation Please

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doctor dominic

Member
Messages
6
Location
Phuket , Thailand
Hello everybody,
This is my first post,

I have thin small body 165cm , with shorter finger and small palm.
My 2 years old setup is System 76 Mauriat tenor & Jody Jazz DV NY6*

I has suffered neckache from its thick brass weight
that would not allow me to play happily longer than 20 minute .
And also the straining from stretching between neck( mpc ) and right wrist

I have try many harness ( BG & Neotech )
but it is clumsy to wear and remove .

To solve this problem directly I m finding my new lighter tenor sax.
Knowing that nature of tenor sax is always heavy ( 3-5kgs )

My financial status allow me to have no budget limit ,
just want to buy my last lightest tenor sax
that have best modern compact keywork & intonation.

After SOTW searching , My target list are the
Yani T901 , Yamaha tenor
, Rampone Cazzani R1 jazz , Keilwerth Sx90R shadow ,
the are all non ribbed sax that could be

Pete & Dear friends ,
Please suggest other sax that escaped my list
and help me pick the best one in your opinion.

Though it seem like Shadow should be on the top of the list.
from its best intonation
I have told that the Shadow's weight is not really light
and keywork & dimension is very wide spread ( compare to yamaha & Yani )

the neck of R1 Jazz is curve & point downward like vintage tenor
and the keywork ergo is like selmer & yani
So this is on the top of my list.

Also I know that the most expensive & magical modern tenor today is
Inderbinen tenor ( yamaha keywork ) and Steve Goodson Category five.

But their very high price ( over 10,000 USD )
may also not worth the minimal difference in intonation and playability .

any shared opinion would be appreciated.

Please dont suggest me to play alto instead ,
I prefer to stick to Bb instrument to avoid mental confuse.

Dr. Dominic
 
Hi Doctor Dominic,
please bear in mind that I'm a beginner but I would like to give you my view.

I ,also, am small - 157cm and about 53kg. I'm not very strong - I have muscles like Olive Oyl! My hands are small - my wedding ring is child's size yet I prefer tenor.
I started with a Selmer Prelude student tenor but really struggled to get my right hand round the palm keys and could not reach the Bb paddle. It was too heavy as well.

I decided to upgrade and tried a Yani, Yamaha,(I forget which models) and Selmer Series II.

For lightness and ease of playing the yani was a dream.
The Yamaha I never even played because straight away I couldn't get my hands round the palm keys.
I bought the Selmer because, whilst it is not as easy as the Yani, I CAN cope with it quite well and I thought that the sound was a lot better.

I cannot use a sling and don't like harnesses so I use a BA sling made by a man in Holland. It is a cross between a sling and a harness and whilst it is not perfect, it works for me.

http://www.blazersatelier.nl/basling/

I hope this helpful but please remember I am only a beginner and this is what suits me!

And welcome to the forum!

regards,
Pauline
 
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I would certainly recommend a Yani T901 for its lightness, ease of playing, ergonomics, intonation etc. When I started off I did find the sound a little lighter than I wished for, but added the Bronze neck 92, and found a mouthpiece that was just right for me (Francois Louis Spectruoso ML280 with FL reeds), and am happy with my choice.

Even lighter is a button free tenor that I am currently playing, designed in the 1950's by Olds, but that is another story!

Good luck in your search - and does partly depend on the sound you are looking for (I primarily play a Selmer Ref54 Alto, which is the sound I absolutely adore).

Kind regards
Tom:cool:
 
Thank you for suggestions

Thank you Dear Pauline & Tom ,
your kindly advices were very appreciated.

The T901 has been on my list already
It seems like this is the most common used professional tenor everywhere.

Old git,
thanks for your offer too .
But I want to keep my Mauriat old horn
though it s heavy but it is my first beloved tenor .

Does any body else has other informations to share ?

I really wonder that
Everyone should have the same problem like me ,
but it is not common to find the previous serious discussion about this topic,

and Most modern manufacturer pay more attention
toward the intonation improvement,
which needs thicker brass , bigger bell , a lot of heavy keywork hardware
and pay no attention at all to the Neck pain from added weight .

I wish the properous modern company ( like P mauriat )
would have this in mind and try to grab this market ,

by making a good tenor that have
ergonomic dimension and light weight
closer to alto saxophone with decent sound .

Another Good alternative in the near future is
the Plastic sax from Vibratosax ( Thailand )

They are about to launch
their first model hi-tech looked alto sax next few months ,
No plan for Tenor sax yet ( I have spoken with their owner )

Dr. Dominic:sax:
 
I wouldn't disagree with the desirability of lighter saxes but I suspect that weight is way down the list of manufacturers priorities - e.g. my Cannonball, studded with moderately decorative but otherwise quite useless "semi-precious" stones; it is conspicuously heavier than the competition and, believe me, you know about it after the thing has been hanging off your neck for 2 hours!

Still wouldn't swap it for anything else though........
 
We players of butch stature, okay, tall and fat with hands like bunches of bananas, need big tenors. We also require heavy spring tension to compensate for the minimum 250 gram weight soldered on each pad holder, including the octaves, to provide 'feel'.
So beware, this 'Wimp' campaign will end up with us all bidding for Pete's bass sax. :)
 
Hi, On the subject of harnesses, Lebayle do a very good one which goes round your waist and then over your shoulders so no weight is borne on your neck. Could help your situation.

regards, Mike
 
I was also disturbed by a hurting neck for a couple of years ago. I bought a harness and a shoulder strap. It takes some time to get used to them, but now I can't go back to a regular neckstrap.

Keys on modern saxes are more complicated and the weight also increases. Maybe a thinwall Buescher can be an alternative for you? My favourite Buescher is the 400 with underslung octave key. Great saxes with a big sound. You can also have the keys adapt to you by a tech.

The only producer that made saxes for persons with small hands was/is Amati.

Thomas
 
doctor dominic said:
Hello everybody,
This is my first post,

I have thin small body 165cm , with shorter finger and small palm.
My 2 years old setup is System 76 Mauriat tenor & Jody Jazz DV NY6*

I has suffered neckache from its thick brass weight
that would not allow me to play happily longer than 20 minute .
And also the straining from stretching between neck( mpc ) and right wrist

I have try many harness ( BG & Neotech )
but it is clumsy to wear and remove .

To solve this problem directly I m finding my new lighter tenor sax.
Knowing that nature of tenor sax is always heavy ( 3-5kgs )

My financial status allow me to have no budget limit ,
just want to buy my last lightest tenor sax
that have best modern compact keywork & intonation.

After SOTW searching , My target list are the
Yani T901 , Yamaha tenor
, Rampone Cazzani R1 jazz , Keilwerth Sx90R shadow ,
the are all non ribbed sax that could be

Pete & Dear friends ,
Please suggest other sax that escaped my list
and help me pick the best one in your opinion.

Though it seem like Shadow should be on the top of the list.
from its best intonation
I have told that the Shadow's weight is not really light
and keywork & dimension is very wide spread ( compare to yamaha & Yani )

the neck of R1 Jazz is curve & point downward like vintage tenor
and the keywork ergo is like selmer & yani
So this is on the top of my list.

Also I know that the most expensive & magical modern tenor today is
Inderbinen tenor ( yamaha keywork ) and Steve Goodson Category five.

But their very high price ( over 10,000 USD )
may also not worth the minimal difference in intonation and playability .

any shared opinion would be appreciated.

Please dont suggest me to play alto instead ,
I prefer to stick to Bb instrument to avoid mental confuse.

Dr. Dominic
Click to expand...

Hi Dr

Now for me it depends on what sort of stuff you play. If you play rock n soul or smooooth...I would say you could save yourself ££££ and find a YTS23 that is in very good nick.
But if you like Jazz then the horn to go for is the Borgani. BUT !!! please be sure to take a very good player with you ,coz buying a borgani is a mine field.
Some are just plain "not nice" but a few are to die for.

mANeAST

P.S. The 901 is a very good horn , but not that lite.
 
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It is Fun to hear from diverse contrasting opinion

Thank you for every opinion ,

It is very fun to listen from vintage guy like you, thomsax ,too
We are mainly speaking about light weight tenor , welcome everybody.

What scares me about used vintage sax are :

their worn ugly finish & uncomfortable key work design
unpredictable repairability condition & their unrealistic price .

I have learned from SOTW discussion too that
for the lightest vintage tenor
there are 2 others staying on the list top.
( other than suggested Buescher Super 400 )

King Super 20 & Conn 10 m .

Anyone who have try this 3 vintage tenors ,
please compare about weight and ergonomic of this three.

There are some of these models available from Ebay auction right now.
and one Buescher Super 400 from Pete thomas website too.

As a novice ,
I really dont know how to predict satisfaction with each of vintage sale .

Dr. Dominic
 
doctor dominic said:
Hello everybody,

After SOTW searching , My target list are the
Yani T901 , Yamaha tenor
, Rampone Cazzani R1 jazz , Keilwerth Sx90R shadow ,
the are all non ribbed sax that could be


Dr. Dominic
Click to expand...

Well I own an SX90R alto and I would not recommend it. I have had nothing but trouble with sticking pads - I don't believe the tenor is much if any better in that dept. Also check out SH Woodwind for a review on the SX90R tenor.

I have an R&C saxello which is quite beautiful in looks and in tone BUT I understand from those nice guys at sax,co.uk that the intonation and the finish is very variable on the alto and tenors so make sure you try before you buy and that you give the horn a good thorough check over.
 
All I can say is that the Conn 10M is lighter than the Cannonball Big Bell series, they being the only 2 saxes I have owned in the last 8 years. Whether it is lighter enough than a modern sax to alleviate your neck problem I don't know. I think any tenor, old or new, will give you neck ache if you hang it round your neck long enough. Although I know the CB is heavier, I don't think it makes my neck ache any more than the Conn.

I wonder whether a "lightweight" tenor is going to be sufficiently lighter to make much difference. I find a lot of "neckache" is actual muscle tension and spasm, and consciously relaxing my posture and doing shoulder/neck stretching exercises is the best way of dealing with it rather than compromising your choice of instrument.
 
I play alto, but even that gave me quite severe neck ache (even although it only weighs 2.75 Kilos) when I first got it. I also received a harness with it, which I used a couple of times ... but, although it prevented the pressure directly on the back of my neck, it was a bit like being trussed up as a Christmas chicken! In due course the neck ache subsided with my ordinary neck strap. But it occurred to me that a longer continuous strap, with a locking hook at each end (to be able to simply fix both hooks to the same sax ring) and that going over my shoulders and looping through the back/middle of the belt that holds my trousers up, would, a) get the weight off my neck and onto my shoulders, just the same as a harness does, and b) not look nearly as naff when I go and answer the door!!!! As things turned out the neck ache problem with my alto went away of its own accord, so I've never implemented this alternative solution ... but if I eventually switch to tenor or lower (i.e. heavier) then that's what I think I'll do as shoulders are far better at supporting increased weights, as backpackers understand very well!!!!!!
 
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I have a conn 10m and a bad neck / back. I bought a sax pro sax holder i now have a conn 10m and no bad neck or back. Try one you may want to keep your current model...
even though mines not a desirable one there great....
 
OK, may as well have some measurements! I happen to have a few of the horns mentioned, but am in the process of selling some (glut!). The following were measured with a digital scale, so probably pretty accurate, however different models of the same horns could easily have different weights.

I don't have a Steve Goodson 5, but have one of his "Saxgourmet" horns. It weighs 3.72 Kg and is the heaviest of the bunch.
Next is a R&C two voices which may be heavier than the ordinary brass horn. It weighs in at 3.44 Kg
Third is the Borgani Joe Lovano model (Jubilee) which weighs 3.30 Kg
Last and lightest of this bunch is the King super 20 (mine is series 1 with all pearls) It's 3.18 Kg.

My fingers aren't long with the little finger (usually the limiting factor) being only 5.5 cm long. This has not limited my playing any of these horns.

I've used many different straps and harnesses as I have a bad neck. The Jazzlab saxholder is fast and easy to use and puts the weight on your shoulders and down to your abdomen. It needs to be physically molded to your body which can take a few minutes (bending the shoulder members to fit).

I wouldn't recommend the Keilwerth as it's a heavy horn. I've also owned Yanagisawa 991 and a Yamaha 62. Neither were particularly light, but both good in terms of ergonomics.

The Steve Goodson and King super 20 are available if you are interested. If you can find out the weight of the R&C brass horn it may weigh less. In terms of intonation and tone R&C would be my choice over all the others. The ergonomics of the Yanagisawa would (in my opinion) be best, but the tone is nothing special.

Hopefully this helps .
 
Hi, Dominic. I am not sure where you are writing from, but If you have the opportunity to try the Tenor Madness Custom 500 tenor , out of Waterloo, Iowa, it is a pleasure to play and of a lighter weight. They run about $4,800 new. Good luck on your search.
 

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