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Saxophones Beginning Bari Saxophone Questions

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Saxobeat

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Hello! I play alto sax in concert and marching band. Everyone in my section encouraged me to try out for honor band on baritone saxophone because I had a good chance of making it because not that many people try out. I did, and I MADE IT!!! I was so excited! But the thing is, I practice but it does not sound that good. I have to push the mouthpiece all the way up onto the cork because I am reallllly flat. But the thing is, all the way pushed up I am STILL 30 cents or more flat! How do I get in tune and how it the embroshure (however that is spelled) differ from alto sax? Also, how should high notes sound? I can play a concert f and it sounds right then it goes up an octave....Thank you! These are real basic questions I am sure everyone knows but I am having to teach myself before the clinic. -Saxobeat
 
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A couple of thoughts: The bari with its large surface area takes a long time to warm up. Until the bell is room temperature to the touch it is going to play flat. The formula is about 25 cents for each 10 degrees F.

As for the low notes shifting up an octave, it is important to keep the throat open---like the first part of a yawn, and the back of the tongue down. Think of singing "AHH" on the lowest note you can sing. If it persists, you might want to have the sax checked for possible leaks.
 
As a recent baritone beginner...

I'm really a clarinettist who'd doubled (more dabbled really!) on alto sax for years. I recently bought a baritone, just because I'd always wanted one even though I don't gig woodwind at all at the moment, and I was surprised just how slack the embouchure needs to be. I played flat at the start, and wondered if it was the mouthpiece (modern piece on an older sax), but I can play it pretty well in tune now after a few months.

A harder reed helped a lot for me. I play a 3 or 3 1/2 on clarinet, 2 or 2 1/2 on alto sax, so I went for a 2 1/2 on the baritone at first (on a Rico Metalite M5). I struggled with the low notes and thought a softer reed would help, but it was actually far worse - I've ended up with a 3. Of course, part of it may well be that I'm used to clarinet with a very tight embouchure, whereas the "proper" sax embouchure is much looser. The alto is much more forgiving of being played like a clarinet it seems.
 
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Low notes on Baritone are a quite something to behold. You may need quite a different reed of the same make. I use a Vandoren 2.5/3 on alto but go up to a 4 for Baritone. It's rather expensive experimenting with baritone reeds. I find the baritone more sensitive to reed variation than the others. The other thing with baritone is that it's very easy to knock it out of regulation. It's a great big lump to be rattling around a case and all that weight can focus on one point, moving things. Longer levers and rods and great big pads mean a small amount of movement at one end can be quite a gap at the tone hole. Getting the three dustbin lid bell notes to close together and feel light and responsive can be a frustration.

Check everything closes and operates as it should and nothing is leaking.
 
There are often probs on bari. Modern mouthpiece on older instruments seem to need a neck extension - or very long shank. Older mouthpieces on newer instruments may cause the problems you're having, but I'm guessing. It'd be worth trying a few different mouthpieces if you can. One other issue with bari is often the size of the mouthpiece. Can make it really uncomfortable to play.
 
Colin the Bear said:
I use a Vandoren 2.5/3 on alto but go up to a 4 for Baritone.
Click to expand...
Interesting you say that as well Colin. I just found it out by trial and error - it seemed logical that a softer reed would work better at low frequencies, but after wasting a few quid on a couple of soft reeds (expensive things to mess about with, as you say!) I tried a harder one and that was a complete revelation.
 
kevgermany said:
Modern mouthpiece on older instruments seem to need a neck extension - or very long shank
Click to expand...
I was afraid of that with mine. It had no mouthpiece when I bought it, the previous owner having used an Otto Link Tone Edge I think. I bought a couple of cheap Ricos to get me going (Metalite and Graftonite), expecting to have to get hold of an older piece eventually, but it seems to play fine with the Ricos now I've got used to it and put a harder reed on. Perhaps my horn isn't old enough to be "old" - it's a late 1950s (I think) Kohler, so probably somewhere on the border between old and modern I suppose.
 
I play a softer reed on my Bari than on my alto, tenor and sop
3 vs 2.5
Whenever I warm up, I always start on top C (octave key and middle finger left hand) and work down 2 octaves, I found it helped to pitch the notes that way. Instinctively an alto player will play a bari an octave too high, because initially they can't imagine the pitch.
As said before - imagine you are an opera singer about to sing some big low note. Think deep. That way you are more likely to pitch the notes low enough.
Also, you can play an alto from your lungs, but a Bari needs your diaphragm.
 
jbtsax said:
A couple of thoughts: The bari with its large surface area takes a long time to warm up. Until the bell is room temperature to the touch it is going to play flat. The formula is about 25 cents for each 10 degrees F.

As for the low notes shifting up an octave, it is important to keep the throat open---like the first part of a yawn, and the back of the tongue down. Think of singing "AHH" on the lowest note you can sing. If it persists, you might want to have the sax checked for possible leaks.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much!!!
 
DartmoorHedgehog said:
As a recent baritone beginner...

I'm really a clarinettist who'd doubled (more dabbled really!) on alto sax for years. I recently bought a baritone, just because I'd always wanted one even though I don't gig woodwind at all at the moment, and I was surprised just how slack the embouchure needs to be. I played flat at the start, and wondered if it was the mouthpiece (modern piece on an older sax), but I can play it pretty well in tune now after a few months.

A harder reed helped a lot for me. I play a 3 or 3 1/2 on clarinet, 2 or 2 1/2 on alto sax, so I went for a 2 1/2 on the baritone at first (on a Rico Metalite M5). I struggled with the low notes and thought a softer reed would help, but it was actually far worse - I've ended up with a 3. Of course, part of it may well be that I'm used to clarinet with a very tight embouchure, whereas the "proper" sax embouchure is much looser. The alto is much more forgiving of being played like a clarinet it seems.
Click to expand...
I am playing on a vandoren 3 reed. Thanks!!!
 
MandyH said:
I play a softer reed on my Bari than on my alto, tenor and sop
3 vs 2.5
Click to expand...
Interesting. The other way round seems to work for me for some reason.

MandyH said:
imagine you are an opera singer about to sing some big low note
Click to expand...
Definitely works for me.

MandyH said:
you can play an alto from your lungs, but a Bari needs your diaphragm.
Click to expand...
I was always taught to use diaphragm support for all woodwind instruments. As a clarinet player though, I find alto sax much easier to play than baritone - the alto seems much happier with my clarinet-like technique and embouchure, whereas on the baritone I've had to learn to play like a saxophonist.

Colin the Bear said:
I like to warm up with low A
Click to expand...
Not easy on a low Bb bari :)
 
Saxobeat said:
Hello! I play alto sax in concert and marching band. Everyone in my section encouraged me to try out for honor band on baritone saxophone because I had a good chance of making it because not that many people try out. I did, and I MADE IT!!! I was so excited! But the thing is, I practice but it does not sound that good. I have to push the mouthpiece all the way up onto the cork because I am reallllly flat. But the thing is, all the way pushed up I am STILL 30 cents or more flat! How do I get in tune and how it the embroshure (however that is spelled) differ from alto sax? Also, how should high notes sound? I can play a concert f and it sounds right then it goes up an octave....Thank you! These are real basic questions I am sure everyone knows but I am having to teach myself before the clinic. -Saxobeat
Click to expand...

I've been told that when you play a baritone mouthpiece you should have a concert D. A baritone mouthpiece is designed / pre pitch to produce a concert D. So if your input tone on a baritone is not concert D then probably your bari sax will not play in tune. So practise to blow concert D with just your mouthpice. A tech that set-up a baritone without blowing a concert D may get into trouble. Or if the tech has done everything correct and the bari owner can't play a concert D at the right pitch.
 
thomsax said:
I've been told that when you play a baritone mouthpiece you should have a concert D. A baritone mouthpiece is designed / pre pitch to produce a concert D. So if your input tone on a baritone is not concert D then probably your bari sax will not play in tune. So practise to blow concert D with just your mouthpice. A tech that set-up a baritone without blowing a concert D may get into trouble. Or if the tech has done everything correct and the bari owner can't play a concert D at the right pitch.
Click to expand...
Thank you! I will definately try that out! So many great players in the world!
 

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