Beginner Mouthpiece question

[Freddie]

Hi, I’ve been trying to learn to play. Using the internet as a teacher, as their are no local teachers. So no teacher to ask.

So I’m happily improving my tone & playing through a list of tunes and I find I’m running out breath, with half filled lungs.

Now I free dive, quite regularly, so I have an understanding of running out of air and this is what I find myself doing. Gasping for breath! As I use less puff to obtain the more pleasant sounds.

is this one of the reasons for going to a mouthpiece with a larger tip opening? Or is a stronger reed the way forward for me?

Please bare in mind, that anything I try takes weeks or months to get to me.

 

[skeller047]

Always fill up your lungs completely. Breathe in from your belly, shoulders neck and head relaxed, like yoga breathing. Keep your abdomen firm as you play. The diaphragm relaxes to push air out, you want to control the amount of air released with your abdominal muscles.

When you get a brief rest in the music, exhale completely then inhale fully.

Embouchure - firm mouth, but little pressure from the jaw, the jaw is there to support the lower lip, not put pressure on the reed.

It is common for woodwind players to need to exhale stale air between phrases. Always do this, and always take a full breath before playing. A good trick to remember is to breathe in time with the music - inhale one or two beats (depends on how fast the music is), in time, before your first note.

[EDIT] I didn’t answer your question. No, a bigger tip mouthpiece will not help with this.

 

[Freddie]

Always fill up your lungs completely. Breathe in from your belly, shoulders neck and head relaxed, like yoga breathing. Keep your abdomen firm as you play. The diaphragm relaxes to push air out, you want to control the amount of air released with your abdominal muscles.

When you get a brief rest in the music, exhale completely then inhale fully.

Embouchure - firm mouth, but little pressure from the jaw, the jaw is there to support the lower lip, not put pressure on the reed.

It is common for woodwind players to need to exhale stale air between phrases. Always do this, and always take a full breath before playing. A good trick to remember is to breathe in time with the music - inhale one or two beats (depends on how fast the music is), in time, before your first note.

[EDIT] I didn’t answer your question. No, a bigger tip mouthpiece will not help with this.

Thanks Skeller, I guess I’m waiting too long to exhale. It’s just started becoming an issue in the last week.

 

[Wonko]

Hi, I’ve been trying to learn to play. Using the internet as a teacher, as their are no local teachers. So no teacher to ask.

So I’m happily improving my tone & playing through a list of tunes and I find I’m running out breath, with half filled lungs.

Now I free dive, quite regularly, so I have an understanding of running out of air and this is what I find myself doing. Gasping for breath! As I use less puff to obtain the more pleasant sounds.

is this one of the reasons for going to a mouthpiece with a larger tip opening? Or is a stronger reed the way forward for me?

Please bare in mind, that anything I try takes weeks or months to get to me.

I've had a similar experience in the beginning.
I think that I was not exhaling enough, probably biting too much on my mouthpiece and not putting enough air through the horn. generaly speaking I was playing quite stressed up at those times.
It takes time and exercise to develop a good embouchure, breath support and learn how to play relaxed.
Switching to a larger tip opening won't help, might even make it worse.

 

[thomsax]

Fill up your lungs and let the belly control it. Think you are an old churh organ. So don't empy your lungs just zip some air, even if you don't need it, when the music allow you to do so. For some years in the 70's I didn't play so much sax (neighbors you know) so I sang more. The guy that help me told me to "sjunga på utandning" ("sing on exalation"). I think it's the same when I play the saxophone?

 

[mizmar]

IMHO seperat out breath support from breathing.
Breath support - maintaining a solid air stream, fast / loud or slow/soft - should always be there. Like a column of air from the stomach to low Bb. It's part of what long tones helps develop.

Breathing, like when you talk or sing, can be adjusted to suit the music phrasing. Sometime a big enough breath for a long phrase or a smaller one or snatching a quick top up... as required... but it is/can be part of the phrasing. You aren't playing bagpipes.
See the discussion here.

 

[Saxlicker]

A good way to check your technique the above posts offer is to....
Lay on the floor and put a fairly large book just above your waste. Now breathing in take the air down below your diaphragm so the book rises as high as it can before you fill the area above the diaphragm/rib cage.
Now you truly have a full body of air and let it go evenly and slowly under control.
Repeat this until your are fed up and do it again later on. Soon it's easy to do that sub consciously when playing.

As for a more open tip, more open than what? but generally no.
As for a stronger reed, no generally softer reeds are better in the beginning but yes it can be too soft. A 2 strength is a reasonable place to be for beginners with some experience.

 

[Freddie]

I've had a similar experience in the beginning.
I think that I was not exhaling enough, probably biting too much on my mouthpiece and not putting enough air through the horn. generaly speaking I was playing quite stressed up at those times.
It takes time and exercise to develop a good embouchure, breath support and learn how to play relaxed.
Switching to a larger tip opening won't help, might even make it worse.

Thanks for the advice, Wonko.

 

[Freddie]

Fill up your lungs and let the belly control it. Think you are an old churh organ. So don't empy your lungs just zip some air, even if you don't need it, when the music allow you to do so. For some years in the 70's I didn't play so much sax (neighbors you know) so I sang more. The guy that help me told me to "sjunga på utandning" ("sing on exalation"). I think it's the same when I play the saxophone?

Thanks Thomsax.

 

[Freddie]

A good way to check your technique the above posts offer is to....
Lay on the floor and put a fairly large book just above your waste. Now breathing in take the air down below your diaphragm so the book rises as high as it can before you fill the area above the diaphragm/rib cage.
Now you truly have a full body of air and let it go evenly and slowly under control.
Repeat this until your are fed up and do it again later on. Soon it's easy to do that sub consciously when playing.

As for a more open tip, more open than what? but generally no.
As for a stronger reed, no generally softer reeds are better in the beginning but yes it can be too soft. A 2 strength is a reasonable place to be for beginners with some experience.

Thanks Saxlicker, have a similar technique for free diving, along with ox saturation.
I’m using a 4c with 2 strength reeds.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Moved my OT hijack about playing with someone standing on your stomach here:

Tone - Diaphragm muscles: practice with a weight on your stomach for breath control

Lay on the floor and put a fairly large book just above your waste. Isn't there a video somewhere of @Pete Thomas doing that with his partner standing on his stomach?

cafesaxophone.com

 

[saxyjt]

Thanks Skeller, I guess I’m waiting too long to exhale. It’s just started becoming an issue in the last week.

Playing sax is not free diving. You have to keep breathing as you play, if you see what I mean. You have air all around you. No need to wait to breath in. Just find the right time based on what you play. I used to free dive, so I know the feeling... it's a completely different game. But a fun one too.

 

[Freddie]

Playing sax is not free diving. You have to keep breathing as you play, if you see what I mean. You have air all around you. No need to wait to breath in. Just find the right time based on what you play. I used to free dive, so I know the feeling... it's a completely different game. But a fun one too.

My reference to free diving was more about recognising the difference between running out of wind & running out oxygen.
Im very much aware of the differences.
I think I may still be biting upon the reed too much. Getting harder to blow.

 

[skeller047]

There are people that give lessons online, over Zoom and such. Your answers concern me that you do not have a good handle on the simple basics of playing a note on the saxophone. I strongly recommend that you find someone good to connect with. I know that Jay Metcalf, for one, is currently taking on students. Nigel McGill and The Sax School is another good resource.

You need someone who is a player to watch what you do. Getting harder to blow could be any number of things, including a warping reed. Biting is another. These are not the only things.