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M/Pieces - Ligs Bari Esprit II Alto MP - The clarification thread

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Forget the Easyreed part of the Equasion Colin, the pips pick off and they`d appear to be Just Esprit IIs with just Bari on after that -

I`ve just spoken to Alastair At Hanson - they`ll do them for £10 to Cafe sax members and will supply them with or without the Easy-reed pips included
 
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TomMapfumo

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You could then avoid the TJ advertising on the mouthpiece - teach them a lesson!
 
DavidUK

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Forget the Easyreed part of the Equasion Colin, the pips pick off and they`d appear to be Just Esprit IIs with just Bari on after that -

I`ve just spoken to Alastair At Hanson - they`ll do them for £10 to Cafe sax members and will supply them with or without the Easy-reed pips included
That's a good deal now that JP no longer supply the lig & cap for £13.53 posted. They'll be out of IIs soon anyway.
is Alastair's price including post? I wonder if he's given up on the idea and just selling off stock now?
 
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1:- I doubt it`s including post but ask to make sure it`d be only £2,50 or so anyway .. £10 for a piece of this calibre is insane, it`s better than the £30 Yam 4C/5C

2:- Alastair hasn`t given up, in fact he`s getting Tenor ones in a couple of weeks to add to the Easy reed system - the idea of selling them like this was basically down to me asking how much he could sell them for to Cafe members given the popularity the Esprit II has gained ..

3:- as far as I know the II didn`t come with Lig & cap anyway as standard (mine didn`t from Omega), it wasn`t promised on JP`s website anyway . JP were selling off old Esprit-1 stock with lig and cap ..

4:- both pieces (E-II and Hanson) play the same to me using the same reed and lig as far as I can tell by swapping the Rd/Lig between the two which I thought was the best way to keep constants
 
DavidUK

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1:- I doubt it`s including post but ask to make sure it`d be only £2,50 or so anyway .. £10 for a piece of this calibre is insane, it`s better than the £30 Yam 4C/5C

2:- Alastair hasn`t given up, in fact he`s getting Tenor ones in a couple of weeks to add to the Easy reed system - the idea of selling them like this was basically down to me asking how much he could sell them for to Cafe members given the popularity the Esprit II has gained ..

3:- as far as I know the II didn`t come with Lig & cap anyway as standard (mine didn`t from Omega), it wasn`t promised on JP`s website anyway . JP were selling off old Esprit-1 stock with lig and cap ..

4:- both pieces (E-II and Hanson) play the same to me using the same reed and lig as far as I can tell by swapping the Rd/Lig between the two which I thought was the best way to keep constants
Did you ask if the Tenor version would have the same square chamber as the Alto II?
Tried a Tenor Esprit (round chamber I presume) a while ago but didn't like it.
 
DHM

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Did you ask if the Tenor version would have the same square chamber as the Alto II?
Tried a Tenor Esprit (round chamber I presume) a while ago but didn't like it.

Sorry to interrupt, but can anyone point me to a primer on how chamber shape and size affect tone?
 
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Did you ask if the Tenor version would have the same square chamber as the Alto II?
Tried a Tenor Esprit (round chamber I presume) a while ago but didn't like it.

I didn`t and doubt they`ll know until it rolls up - I`ll ask when they get some in . the more upmarket Bari HR Tenor is round chamber, do they make a square chamber tenor at all ?
 
TomMapfumo

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Just had some email communication with Andy at John Packer about the Bari Esprit II.

"Hi Tom,

No we will keep going with the Esprit II for as long as we possibly can, they are very good budget mouthpieces.

I am glad if you would notify your fellow members!

Thank You!
Regards
Andy Still
Retail & Woodwind Manager
Click here to join our mailing list
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For and on behalf of
John Packer Ltd
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Tel 01823 282386
Fax 01823 337653
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www.jpmusicalinstruments.com"

The good news continues!
 
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DavidUK

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Fair play to JP. My Esprit (I had the last one on the shelf, the rest are Esprit IIs) arrived today and as Odette at JP had promised, as they'd run out of the ones with ligs and caps she'd found me a rather nice shiny gold metal Yamaha cap instead of the plastic one. Great customer service.

:thumb:
 
TomMapfumo

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Sorry to interrupt, but can anyone point me to a primer on how chamber shape and size affect tone?

Unable to locate such a primer but the general verdict seems to be that a square chamber produces a cleaner, more focussed sound (from the Jody Jazz website, and also supported by the Bari website) but some suggest that square is darker and round is brighter and vice versa.
In Paul Coats article: http://www.saxgourmet.com/PaulCoatsArticles/mouthpiece_facings.htm he maintains that the smaller square chamber is more suited to jazz/rock/pop and that the larger, round chamber was better for classical and big band.

I'll keep looking.
Tom
 
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TomMapfumo

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Interesting discovery, found in a Thread on SOTW entitled "Square chamber - why?"

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?70271-Square-chamber-why

"Ralph Morgan told me in 1991, at his house, that the square chambered mouthpieces(S-80) are junk, and Selmer made them that way in 1974 (for the new Mark 7's) because it's easier and faster for the machine to cut the square chamber, rather than hand cut a round chamber." #26.

Make of this what you will, but Ralph Morgan, a famous mouthpiece maker, used to work for Selmer before setting up his own business producing Morgan Mouthpieces, currently made by the folks that set up "Mouthpiece Cafe" The Selmer S80 dates from 1974, though some square chamber mouthpieces were used in the 1920's by various dance bands to brighten up their sound.

A useful final quote from the thread - "I think the question of "why" has been answered by a couple of people: Selmer determined that it was mechanically easier (and, more importantly, cheaper) to manufacture mouthpieces with square chambers. And lo and behold, they worked (for the reasons Mojo stated) and people liked them! I believe it was as simple as that." #73

Seems that primarily chamber size is more important than shape, and the square chamber was cheaper to make. Whether this motivated Bari is unclear with the Esprit II, which was produced after the Esprit I at the same price.

I'll have to get an Esprit I to see if I can detect a difference.
 
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The Bari HR pieces are round chamber and they`ve still not made a square chamber Esprit for Soprano or Tenor so I`m wondering where the logic is and why the II is only in Alto ........

the Yamaha 5C and brethen are square chamber regardless of fitting, the Bari Round chamber esprit on Sop is better than the Square chamber Yamaha 4C though this could be down to a number of things, most basically that Bari simply make a better budget Soprano Mpc than Yamaha ?
 
TomMapfumo

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The original publicity from Bari was that the Alto Esprit II would be followed by the other sax mouthpieces but this must have been aborted at some stage and for some reason.

I'll try and find out why.
 
DavidUK

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The Bari HR pieces are round chamber and they`ve still not made a square chamber Esprit for Soprano or Tenor so I`m wondering where the logic is and why the II is only in Alto ........

the Yamaha 5C and brethen are square chamber regardless of fitting, the Bari Round chamber esprit on Sop is better than the Square chamber Yamaha 4C though this could be down to a number of things, most basically that Bari simply make a better budget Soprano Mpc than Yamaha ?
I looked through my Yam 4C earlier and it's a little roundish at the bottom whereas the Esprit II is very square.
 
TomMapfumo

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I have just received an email from Joe Giardullo about Square chambered mouthpieces, which I thought was very helpful -

" RE: Mouthpiece chamber shape.
FROM SopranoPlanet TO You
Show Details

From

SopranoPlanet

Hi Tom

That’s a good question. I have always found square chambered pieces to be bright and I suspect it has something to do with “packing” the sonic waves into a space with sharp edges as opposed to rounded ones.

Also, every square throated piece I’ve ever seen has more material inside the chamber, which reduces the chamber size and makes the sound more compact and, again, a bit bright.

A larger chamber with a small throat would play poorly, as the sound waves would tend to stack up inside the piece, producing a sonic impedance.
I hope this is of help.

Best
Joe

Sopranoplanet
World Class mouthpieces for soprano saxophone"

Kind regards
Tom
 
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Ivan

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I don't want round

I don't want square

I want oval

So there
 
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Well you`re in luck - OK you are if you`ve a Sop in your armoury as the Sop Esprit is slightly oval-ish
 
DavidUK

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Well you`re in luck - OK you are if you`ve a Sop in your armoury as the Sop Esprit is slightly oval-ish
I have one sitting here ready for the new arrival.

:thumb:
 

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