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BOTM Ballad of the Month February 2016: Soultrane

jbtsax said:
Tap your toe twice as fast? 🙂
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Had another go at the double time section with my little band last night, it was not a success. I've also recorded my efforts at it with a backing track, with similarly unpleasing results.

Is this maybe not really a good tune for this treatment? I know John Coltrane manages it with aplomb, but I haven't got aplomb yet.
 
Bernie said:
Had another go at the double time section with my little band last night, it was not a success. I've also recorded my efforts at it with a backing track, with similarly unpleasing results.

Is this maybe not really a good tune for this treatment? I know John Coltrane manages it with aplomb, but I haven't got aplomb yet.
Click to expand...

If it were anyone else I would suggest playing the arpeggios of the chords in the changes in the backing tracks at the double time tempo. That and perhaps the scales or modes that fit the changes as well. For someone who plays "by ear" I believe the best way to learn would be to transcribe Coltrane's solo from the recording---not write it down, but learn to play it by listening. The program called Transcribe is excellent for this purpose.
 
Thanks jbtsax. You said you thought you were starting to understand me but I think maybe you haven't understood what I've been saying about musical theory and playing by ear. I can follow your valuable suggestions about playing arpeggios of the chords, and using the relevant scales and modes, without needing to know the names of the notes or the chords. I won't be able to do this very successfully, but that will be due to a lack of technical ability on the instrument and the limits of my musicality, and not because I don't know the names of the notes, or the specification of the relevant mode. I know for example by ear when I hit a note that doesn't belong in the relevant scale or mode.

Everything you need to know is there in the music itself, the theory and written music are only the way we talk about it. So it's not just "by ear" players who should learn to play by listening, everybody should do it, and it should be a substantial element of learning.
 
mrpeebee said:
Lots of nice takes already posted 🙂.

I didn't know this song at all (not a big Coltrane fan here) but the score didn't look to complicated to a bad music reader like me, so I gave it (after first having listened to the Coltrane take) a one time shot without much preparation. Here is my first and only recorded take:

- 'Soul Trane' (Florida no USA 10* - Plasticover 2):
Soul Trane (Florida no USA 10* - Plasticover 2) by mrpeebee

I was actually not unpleased with the result, but don't have an idea if I played the melody fully correct!
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Loved It Mr PeeBee! I like the breathy sound and the improv was wonderful - spot on!
 
Jeanette said:
Well here's my take @Chris kindly did me a shorter bt, bit of a sudden end though 🙂

I've really struggled with the drop from higher octave to lower on this and there are so many of them.

There is also a real dryness in my tone that I can't figure out as I'm sure it isn't that bad live 🙁

On the upside, I found I was hearing the chord changes easier 🙂

https://soundcloud.com/jeanette-7%2Fsoultrane-short
View: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette-7/soultrane-short


As ever any hints tips advice (take up knitting!) welcome 🙂
Jx
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Hi Jeanette, I'd like to add something to the feedback other people have already given. Your sound is great and you play all the notes correctly but your play them (mostly) 'straight'. That's to say that quavers (half-notes) have equal time value. A lot of jazz music is played in 'swing' where the first quaver has roughly twice the time value of the second. Try it to see what difference it makes.
 
Jeanette said:
Well here's my take @Chris kindly did me a shorter bt, bit of a sudden end though 🙂

I've really struggled with the drop from higher octave to lower on this and there are so many of them.

There is also a real dryness in my tone that I can't figure out as I'm sure it isn't that bad live 🙁

On the upside, I found I was hearing the chord changes easier 🙂

https://soundcloud.com/jeanette-7%2Fsoultrane-short
View: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette-7/soultrane-short


As ever any hints tips advice (take up knitting!) welcome 🙂
Jx
Click to expand...

I thought you you did a great job with it,the more you play and the less you need the dots the better it will become I'm sure, but a fine start
 
Nick Wyver said:
I think the point is that, being a tad simplistic about it, improvisation in a folk context is largely diatonic whereas in jazz many weird and wonderful chords and their extensions are used extensively. Practising playing diatonically does not give you much insight in how to deal with them.
Click to expand...

Totally agree (being a tad simplistic too).
From the harmonic point of view jazz is definitely the most articulated form of "popular" music (I consider Indian classical music "non popular")
Other forms of "folk" music develop different aspects: try a Macedonian wedding band or Neapolitan tammurriata.

But we are going offtopic: Soultrane is a jazz ballad. That does not sound like "comformity" to me.

We might move the debate about "Is jazz not as good as folk music" to a separate thread
 
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