Badly fitting neck

[jeremyjuicewah]

Hi, anyone have a tip here? I have just snapped the thumbscrew on my Yamaha tenor neck. Its always been a bad fit, sometimes having to wrestle the thing in and once bent the octave mech fitting it, but once in its a swivelling horrible thing. I realised some time ago that a touch of cork grease would allow the neck to slip in without a problem, but once greased it does swing about a bit. Have felt the thumbscrew going a few days as I have been screwing it down tighter and tighter. I can get the end out ok, but the necks just a bad fit. I think too it may even leak a little bit, though I have never thought of that area as a critical one for leaks.

My Yamaha alto neck snicks in with a beautiful sound and you can tell its a lovely fit in a nicely made horn. Not the tenor.

Cheers
Mike

 

[kevgermany]

Technician. No other way. You'll probably find it plays better afterwards, there's often a leak when the neck is loose.

 

[Nick Wyver]

Wot Kev sed.

 

[jbtsax]

An experienced tech with the right equipment can expand the tenon to give it an airtight fit. One concern is that when a neck becomes loose and the player over tightens the tightening screw, it pulls the two sides of the slot too close together and forms a "bubble" in the receiver right below the slot. That bubble needs to be addressed by tapping that area down or else even when the neck is expanded it will still leak through the slot.

 

[zelda]

An experienced tech with the right equipment can expand the tenon to give it an airtight fit. One concern is that when a neck becomes loose and the player over tightens the tightening screw, it pulls the two sides of the slot too close together and forms a "bubble" in the receiver right below the slot. That bubble needs to be addressed by tapping that area down or else even when the neck is expanded it will still leak through the slot.

Talk about a timely thread. I twisted off the tightening screw on my YTS23 the other day. I'd read about the need to expand the tenon but I wasn't aware of the "bubble" problem. I'll be taking the saxophone to a tech in the next week to get it fixed.

 

[jeremyjuicewah]

Ok, get it. But I haven't heard the term tenon about a sax before. Its the part that is inserted, into the body? My mender is 300km away but I am putting together a shipment of mangled brass to drive up to him in the next month or so. I will just have to use another. I was back on the Yamaha because I thought it would be easier for my course on low note mastery and I wanted to laquer the Martin. That can wait till the temperature drops a bit anyway.

Thanks all,
Mike

 

[kevgermany]

The tenon is the part of the neck that goes into the socket or receiver.
You might get away with some ptfe tape until you can get it to the repairer. But neck screws shouldn't need a lot of tightening. If it does, it's a sign of a poorly fitting neck.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Brass is used because it's soft and workable. There's no point swinging on brass screws. The thread will strip very easily or the bolt will shear in your hand.

 

[jbtsax]

Broken neck screws are so common that when extracting one and replacing it many techs cut a screwdriver slot in the end of the new one so that when (not if) it breaks again it will be easier to remove.

 

[zelda]

Broken neck screws are so common that when extracting one and replacing it many techs cut a screwdriver slot in the end of the new one so that when (not if) it breaks again it will be easier to remove.

I was able to get at the end of the screw with a very hard, sharp-pointed awl from a mini-screwdriver set and turn the screw out to where I could get a hold of it with a pair or pliers and remove it.
I then removed the screw from one of my YTS-61s and filed a slot in the end using a very narrow fret file. Thanks for the tip.
Tuesday, I'll be starting a 4-6 week stint at a power plant in a city several hours from home. I'll be working ten hours a day, seven days a week. Unless there's a day off that doesn't fall on a Sunday, there will be no chance to take my YTS-23 and a recently acquired YTS-61 to a Yamaha tech I've found there. Monday is Labour Day and the music store is closed. The good news is that while the store is closed, he will be working as he is really busy with the start of school coming up. This music store is the exclusive dealer for Yamaha in this area. He told me to come around to the back and he will let me in and he'll give both horns a going over in the next month or so. I have the same loose neck problem with the 61.

 

[jbtsax]

Congrats. That's exactly how I was taught to do it. Wow, what a work schedule. I wish I were closer to help you out. Good luck with that.

 

[jeremyjuicewah]

Just for the record, it may help someone. I used a 1.5mm drill in a variable speed battery drill gun and started on the sheared end pushing through the way it would have tightened had it still had a thumbgrip on it. I tried inserting a watchmenders screwdriver and twisting, no joy. Reversed the direction of drilling, into the other end, to undoing it if it still had a thumbgrip, and the drill just caught it and wound it completely out. I was lucky, but worth remembering.
Cheers all
Mike

 

[Colin the Bear]

http://www.screwfix.com/p/stud-extractor-set-8-pieces/20084

http://youtu.be/4wNhVivHloE

 

[jeremyjuicewah]

Takes me back to the good old days as an aircraft tech. Easyouts they was called in them days. Havent got any anymore, hope never to need another. Nasty cold days of ripped knuckles and the taste of Skydrol in everything.

 

[zelda]

Just for the record, it may help someone. I used a 1.5mm drill in a variable speed battery drill gun and started on the sheared end pushing through the way it would have tightened had it still had a thumbgrip on it. I tried inserting a watchmenders screwdriver and twisting, no joy. Reversed the direction of drilling, into the other end, to undoing it if it still had a thumbgrip, and the drill just caught it and wound it completely out. I was lucky, but worth remembering.
Cheers all
Mike

That was Plan A, Mike, but I couldn't find a 1.5mm drill bit. Worth remembering.

 

[zelda]

Takes me back to the good old days as an aircraft tech. Easyouts they was called in them days. Havent got any anymore, hope never to need another. Nasty cold days of ripped knuckles and the taste of Skydrol in everything.

They're still called Easyouts I believe.

 

[kevgermany]

Easyouts.... And when they snap off😡

 

[jeremyjuicewah]

Yes I recall easyouts snapping. Only when others used them of course. I think they clumsy wretches used to try to shatter the stuck in bit with a centre punch and gouge it out in scraps. But good that some things don't change. I am going back 45 years to the days of the Vampire and the Comet.

I cant usually find a 1.5 mm drill bit, not in one piece anyway. I don't use these things much now so they last longer. There is something weird about that statement but I cannot tease my morning brain into defining it.
Cheers
Mike

 

[AlistairD]

As a temporary fix for a loose tenon (before you break the screw of course), I use a electrical tape on the neck. Easy to add or remove to get the right fit and I find it's soft enough to allow the screw to tighten to stop the leaks. Not a long term fix but works until I can get the horn to a tech.

A

 

[aldevis]

I use a electrical tape on the neck.

Or teflon (PTFE?), it slips well.