Approaching A Solo For The First Time - Doxy

jbtsax

old and opinionated
Subscriber
Messages
6,524
Location
Beautiful Springville, Utah USA
#21
These look like the changes from the "Real Book" but the key signature is wrong. This tune makes more sense taking into account the chromatically descending dominant 7ths in the first measure and then continuing with secondary dominants to the F7 the V7 of Bb.
I'm going to change my original advice to "just play something that sounds good". :)


1540778493959.png
 

nigeld

I think I need a different ligature
Subscriber
Messages
3,790
Location
Bristol
#22
Can someone explain to me the G7 chord in the second full bar?
The chord contains G,B,D but the song has G,Bb,Db
 

randulo

Europe
Subscriber
Messages
261
Location
Bordeaux, France
#24
As an aside, some of you must have heard tunes that are blues with a bridge, AABA? The bridge is usually rhythm changes bridge or startive in the VII and chromatic going down to the V, which I like a lot. I can't for the life of me think of the Coltrane tune that I've heard on a live in Europe recording. It wasn't Locomotion that I just found looking for "blues with a bridge". Traneing In, that was it. Faster than the album version.

And here's the exact version I heard. (as a link so as not to disturb)

We now return you to your scheduled program.
 
Last edited:
Messages
472
#25
I'd actually question those chords for that tune anyway, doesn't work for me.

This is what I think:

I - bVII7

VI 7 ----

II 7- V7

I




Yes that's the most common way.

I've also heard it done | C B7 | Bb7 A7 | for the first 2 bars. Dave's chords seem to be derived from that with some b5 subs.

Dave, that should give you a clue as to one possible approach to the first 2 bars.
 

Veggie Dave

Sax Worker
Subscriber
Messages
2,485
Location
Hutton, Essex
#26
These look like the changes from the "Real Book" but the key signature is wrong. This tune makes more sense taking into account the chromatically descending dominant 7ths in the first measure and then continuing with secondary dominants to the F7 the V7 of Bb.
That's from the C version of The Fake Book and makes much more sense. However, it's the Hal Leonard version I have in front of me and your explanation of secondary dominants is, I think, the best way to initially approach that specific version.

Yes that's the most common way.

I've also heard it done | C B7 | Bb7 A7 | for the first 2 bars. .
Which, to me at least, strongly suggests a blues style. The Hal Leonard version, on the other hand, didn't suggest (to me, anyway) any particular style at all.

What I'm going to try to do when I get an hour or so spare is to record a solo using my I IV idea (which I no longer think will work at all), JBT's secondary dominants and then simple C blues. Hopefully each will have its own distinct sound.
 

Veggie Dave

Sax Worker
Subscriber
Messages
2,485
Location
Hutton, Essex
#29
Well, that didn't go quite as planned. ;)

Approaching the chord changes as described in my original idea was a disaster - unless you like really discordant melodies, anyway. After a short practise I gave up completely on the idea.

Trying to outline each chord sort of worked but that sounded very mechanical, too, rather lacking in musicality. At least the way I was doing it. Playing the solo with the attitude that it's a blues in C, with the occasional chord outline seemed to work best although I found my playing to be more than a little repetitive.

Basically, it's not been the roaring success I was hoping for. ;) I did make a recording, which I've put on Dropbox rather than Soundcloud as I can't say I'm happy with it. I also discovered today that playing in a really cold shed, er, studio, really increases the amount of condensation in the instrument and also in the overall sound.

Dropbox - Doxy.mp3
 

Jeanette

Organizress
Cafe Moderator
Messages
23,292
Location
Cheshire UK
#32
Basically, it's not been the roaring success I was hoping for. ;) I did make a recording, which I've put on Dropbox rather than Soundcloud as I can't say I'm happy with it. I also discovered today that playing in a really cold shed, er, studio, really increases the amount of condensation in the instrument and also in the overall sound.
Perhaps we should start an impro thread around it and you can pinch learn from other people's ideas :)

Sounds good though

Jx
 

Veggie Dave

Sax Worker
Subscriber
Messages
2,485
Location
Hutton, Essex
#33
In the cold light of the following day it's possible to listen to yesterday's recording and judge it a little more honestly.

It's crap.

Now we've got that out of the way, it's painfully obvious that I need to outline the chords properly and not in the half-heartedly, finger-widdling, thoughtless way that I did it.

I've created a simple backing track, using the Real Book chord progression (rather than Hal Leonard's version, as it feels more logical to me), over which I can practise outlining the chords using simple triads, then arpeggios. Hopefully this will lead to a more cohesive improvisation that properly follows the chord changes.

As an example:
Doxy - triads - Full Score.jpg


I have, rather obviously, not spent anywhere enough time on the basics...
 
Last edited:

rhysonsax

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,249
Location
Surrey, UK
#34
Our big band sometimes play a NYJO arrangement called Lift Off that is on the chords of Doxy (Ja-Da). Nice writing and you might get some solo ideas from this performance by NYJO at Ronnie Scott's


I played the bari part, including solos and found it quite hard to stop just playing "clunky" two bar and four bar phrases that go up and then down ! Easy to solo but harder to make it interesting.

Rhys
 

AndyWhiteford

Senior Member
Messages
399
Location
Glasgow UK
#36
1/ I don't think i've ever seen an E7 (III7) in bar 2, maybe a Em7 (IIIm7) suits better ,
whichever way you're heading towards the A7 (VI7).

2/ here's Tubby Hayes' solo- [ in a different key, ] - LOTS of blues lines ,
altered dominants and enclosures on arpeggial material.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OePzyJqvAs

.
3/ Bob mintzer's "Sonny" is based on the changes for Doxy
Rather complex in places, plenty of altered dominant lines, alongside a nice "How are things in Glockamorra" quotation ;-)
[ and a couple of altissimo high Bs, which i'd forgotten about lol]
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouLBpy9juQ0


My own transcription of Mintzer's solo available, free, here, kindly hosted alongside Charles' own transcriptions of the Tubby and Phil Woods versions [link:]
Home Page
 
Last edited:

AndyWhiteford

Senior Member
Messages
399
Location
Glasgow UK
#39
My memory suffered a "calypso collapso" :

now that I hear it again, "Sonny" is based on Rollins's "Saint Thomas", so don't try it over the 'Doxy" changes.

The perils of forum-posting when you're supposed to be working....
 
Top Bottom