Beginner Am I on the right track? (Embouchure)

Kerry

Formerly HipCity
119
Leeds
Hi,

I've had my sax 3 weeks now and have been doing okay on the whole but have had some problems with sounding low notes (G downwards) consistently without them jumping the octave and with high notes (2nd G upwards) being a bit flat.
After a bad couple of days when I seemed to go backwards, a discussion with my tutor and lots of (very often conflicting) internet research on embouchure I had a really good practice session yesterday and the low and high notes were much better.
What made the difference was rolling my bottom lip out more for the low notes and pulling it in closer to my teeth but not over them for the high notes with an in-between position for the mid range notes. I just wanted to ask if I am on the right track before continuing to use that technique, I don't want to start doing something which might become a problem later on and I don't have a lesson with my tutor until the week after next.
 
You shouldn't need to change your embouchure from high to low. Try changing your mouth and throat shape as if you're singing the notes.

Easy top and difficult bottom might indicate a softer reed.

Be sure to soak the reed before it goes on the mouthpiece.
 
You shouldn't need to change your embouchure from high to low. Try changing your mouth and throat shape as if you're singing the notes.

Easy top and difficult bottom might indicate a softer reed.

Be sure to soak the reed before it goes on the mouthpiece.
Thanks for that I had a feeling I shouldn't be changing my bottom lip which is why I asked. I have been working on using my throat and find if I play something I know really well the notes come easier, probably because I am subconsciously singing the notes with my throat.
I wasn't consciously moving my bottom lip when practising yesterday I just realised I was doing it towards the end of the session. Now I know to try and stop myself doing that to compensate and work harder on my throat and mouth shape. Thank you.
I've been soaking my reeds in vodka, controversial I know, but my tutor swears by it. My husband's not impressed that I have been pinching his vodka to soak my reeds.
 
Can you sing the notes in pitch?

if you have a piano or piano app, play the note (remember it's transposed for a sax, so you may need to work out the right note first!) then sing the note, when you can sing it easily and clearly (you are not an opera singer!) then play the note on the saxophone.

You need to open your throat, create the inside cavern of your mouth into the right shape and use your diaphragm to play the right pitch.
 
Can you sing the notes in pitch?

if you have a piano or piano app, play the note (remember it's transposed for a sax, so you may need to work out the right note first!) then sing the note, when you can sing it easily and clearly (you are not an opera singer!) then play the note on the saxophone.

You need to open your throat, create the inside cavern of your mouth into the right shape and use your diaphragm to play the right pitch.
Thanks, that's a good idea, my singing isn't great and could well be part of the problem. Best wait until everyone else is out though, they've already suffered enough with the sax never mind my singing!
 
I went to a workshop last week. there were 9 alto saxes. The guy leading the workshop got the "lead" alto sax to play a note, then got us all to sing it, then he asked us to play it. We all pitched exactly the same note - because we had sung it first.

I am no singer either, but I am finding that with time, my ability to sing a note to the correct pitch as one being played, whether on piano or another sax, is improving.

This makes it easier to tune your sax to someone else's and to pitch your notes together in a larger group of saxes.
Playing is about listening as well.
 
Tongue position can be a factor. Low in the mouth for low notes and higher (mainly at the back of th mouth) for the higher ones. Try jumping from low to middle D and back without using the octave key, just moving your tongue.
 
I've been soaking my reeds in vodka, controversial I know, but my tutor swears by it. My husband's not impressed that I have been pinching his vodka to soak my reeds.

😱 Is this a real thing or is there some sort of jke about this that I dont know? What does it change?

I seem to have the same problem with the note changing octaves by it themselves but I realise that only happens when I am trying too hard on something and make tiny bits to my embouchure~ without wanting or trying but when I get back to how it was before it is alright.
A problem I have at the moment though is the lower register notes are not in tune(as well as my palm keys E3 but that is probably because I only figured it out today). everything above E are in tune but my E, D and C are a little flat do you have the same problem and what does your tutor make you do to fix this?
 
Not unusual to soak your reeds in vodka, if you do a forum search on reed soaking lots of threads

Jx
 
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I went to a workshop last week. there were 9 alto saxes. The guy leading the workshop got the "lead" alto sax to play a note, then got us all to sing it, then he asked us to play it. We all pitched exactly the same note - because we had sung it first.

I am no singer either, but I am finding that with time, my ability to sing a note to the correct pitch as one being played, whether on piano or another sax, is improving.

This makes it easier to tune your sax to someone else's and to pitch your notes together in a larger group of saxes.
Playing is about listening as well.

Oh dear, I really am going to have to work on my singing. I still have the occasional nightmare about singing notes back in my clarinet grade 5 exam and that was over 30 years ago. Fortunately the examiner let me have a second attempt but its still a painful memory.

In other words, the reed you're using may be too hard

I'm using Vandoren Jazz 2's which seem softer than the Rico Royals 2's, tried Rico Royals 1.5 as well but much prefer the Vandoren Jazz 2's and this is what my tutor recommended.

Is your tutor Nick Wyver , by any chance?

You beat me to it 🙂Jx
No its not...I take it he has a reputation where vodka is concerned!

Thank you all for your advice, I'm in the midst of a very frustrating stage. I know I've only had the sax 3 weeks but have had two lessons and at least an hours practice every day. I seemed to make good progress at first but this last week or so I have gone backwards. I'm wondering if I have been pushing my bottom lip in and out all along and only realised yesterday. I had a brief practice just now and made sure I didn't do that and tried to use my throat but it was a pretty dreadful session.

Going to have another go later and if its the same I might have to drink the vodka instead of soaking my reeds in it!
 
Tongue position can be a factor. Low in the mouth for low notes and higher (mainly at the back of th mouth) for the higher ones. Try jumping from low to middle D and back without using the octave key, just moving your tongue.
Thank you I'll try to work on that.
[QUOTE="😱 Is this a real thing or is there some sort of jke about this that I dont know? What does it change?

I seem to have the same problem with the note changing octaves by it themselves but I realise that only happens when I am trying too hard on something and make tiny bits to my embouchure~ without wanting or trying but when I get back to how it was before it is alright.
A problem I have at the moment though is the lower register notes are not in tune(as well as my palm keys E3 but that is probably because I only figured it out today). everything above E are in tune but my E, D and C are a little flat do you have the same problem and what does your tutor make you do to fix this?

According to my tutor soaking reeds in vodka makes them wonderfully soft.
I find I can get the low notes if I slur down to them but find it harder when tonguing but when I do get them they seem in tune. Its my high notes (above the 2nd G) which are flat, the higher I go the flatter.
 
That's a bit weird. In my experience it just makes them ready to play and last longer.
Well that's what he said but there again he is a bit weird albeit in a likeable way. Thought I'd try it anyway especially seeing as I've had a nasty cold as it should kill the germs if nothing else.
 
You know that thing where you can 'hunt and peck' type fairly fast, and then you make yourself learn the proper fingers for typing and initially you are hopelessly slow. But in the long run you can go way faster than with the hunt-and-peck system.

I think it's like that undoing any bad habit and replacing it with a better one.

Plus learning isn't linear, it's not a smooth slope upwards, it's more like mountains, there are plateaus and even downwards bits, on the way up (note to self: remind yourself of this when needed too!)

I think occasionally drinking the vodka, as well as soaking your reeds in them, sounds like an excellent plan 🙂
 
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No its not...I take it he has a reputation where vodka is concerned!

Nick vodka................. 😉

Going to have another go later and if its the same I might have to drink the vodka instead of soaking my reeds in it!

Learning sax is like anything new, can be incredibly frustrating one day and immensely rewarding the next.if it is all going pear shape put it away and have that vodka, tomorrow it will be different again.

I promise 🙂

Jx
 
To prevent low notes from jumping up an octave, the back of the tongue must stay down. You can place your finger in the center of the tongue and say "Ahh Eee Ahh" to see the range of movement that is possible. To get the sensation of an open throat say "HAUP" when you inhale or do the first part of a yawn. To get the sensation of the back of the tongue being lower in the mouth sing "Ahh".

I have my students sing down from G to low C on an "Ahh" syllable and then slur down those notes while blowing lots of warm air. It also helps to mentally direct the airstream to the LH thumb. It is important to crescendo as you go down since each time you add a finger, you are playing on a wider tube.

If low notes are easy to play slurred, but difficult to tongue it generally means the tongue is affecting the airstream. I suggest you do the same exercise tonguing each note 4 times with a "Dah" syllable. Use your free hand to touch under your jaw or look in a mirror to see if there is any external movement when you tongue. If there is it generally means you are moving too much of the tongue too far inside the mouth.
 

Similar threads... or are they? Maybe not but they could be worth reading anyway 😀

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