Tone Alto sax player trying to learn soprano...any tips?

[Eduan Steenkamp]

Hi all,

I have been playing saxophone for a while now and I finally saved up enough money to buy myself another saxophone. I bought a suzuki soprano saxopnone, yes that was my first mistake...

I am struggling so much with the intonation and now I am wondering is it just the cheap saxophone or is it the way I am playing? I have no problem with my intonation on the alto saxophone.

So you guys and gals that play the soprano? Any tips for me? I really want to learn it and drive some different styles but it bothers me a lot and it is difficult to play with my backing tracks if the pitch and tone is wrong.

Regards,

Eduan

 

[Ivan]

Soprano intonation is difficult to master

If the sax itself isn't right then that's double trouble

But you might as well persevere, practicing long notes, and see if you can tame the mini-beast

If there's a technician who can look over the sop; so much the better

 

[Colin the Bear]

Four hours a day for a decade or two should sort it. Practice practice practice, Oh! and read all about beginning on soprano in the forum archive.

 

[Wade Cornell]

The sax is an imperfect instrument. The lower pitched saxes tend to play relatively true notes. You blow, press the right key and a note that's relatively in tune comes out, but you should notice that it's possible to tighten your embouchure and make the pitch a bit higher, or loosen your embouchure and have the pitch go lower.

The higher the pitch of the instrument (soprano or sopranino) the more you MUST be able to hear the pitch your playing as you need to always adjust to play in tune. Getting used to the instrument is one part of this, the other is hearing the note you are about to play so that it's played in tune. That's one reason why soprano isn't recommended for beginners.

Having said all that... I'd been playing sax for more than 25 years before I got my first soprano. It was a cheap early model "LA sax" sop. It sounded awful and I just couldn't play it in tune. Then I had the opportunity to play a Yanagisawa, and suddenly I could play perfectly. The LA sax sop was a dog!!!

Hard to say if your instrument is crap or it's just your not being able to play it. Take it to a tech or find a friend who can play and have them give it a go. If the instrument is OK, then you may need to get a decent mouthpiece (you didn't mention whether it's the mouthpiece that came with the instrument...usually crap), and use fairly soft reeds that allow you to use your embouchure to control the pitch better.

In your picture with the soprano "assembled" the mouthpiece is very far out. Start with the mouthpiece around 2/3 down the cork and be ready to push it further on. Here's a tuning trick:

Play your low B, but instead of it being low B play it as the first harmonic which is an octave above. That's the same as hitting the octave key, but DON'T use the octave key. Now play the second B natural (the octave above which is just the first finger of your left hand), which is the same note as you just played. They should sound the same (in tune with each other). If they don't adjust the mouthpiece on the neck until they sound in tune with each other.

Best of luck.

 

[Alphorn]

Checking your signature and moving on to your website Iam suprised that you come up with questions that are typical for a beginner. Considering saxyvibes you seem to be a pro or semi-pro player. Which brings me to the conclusion that, if you cannot play your soprano half properly, it is most likely the instrument make that causes your problems. I would expect that you have a set embochoure and can master intonation.

Iam a long way from your level of playing, but my Yamaha YSS675 soprano is no beast at all. On my soprano I have to push the mouthpiece almost all the way onto the cork. Of several different mouthpieces I own only 1 allows for about 1/3 of the cork to stick out. All others are at around 1 - 3 mm from the end. Judging by the discoloration of the cork as seen on the neck lying in the your sax case, I would say you need to push it significantly more to the end. One thing I realized recently. My critical note is middle Cis. It is noticable lower than all other notes on my soprano. Used to tune to B and check D as well to find a position with be best compromise and play it with a quite firm embochoure. That brought everything in tune but not middle Cis. Couldn't raise it to an acceptable intonation. In the end I pushed the mouthpiece on as described above and let the other notes fall by a more relaxed embochoure that left room to bring Cis up to tune.

Have fun with soprano. It's worth it.

Alphorn

 

[Nick Wyver]

On my soprano I have to push the mouthpiece almost all the way onto the cork.

Yup. Same on my 3 sops. This afternoon the mouthpiece was about 2mm from the top octave pip - no cork showing.

 

[Eduan Steenkamp]

Checking your signature and moving on to your website Iam suprised that you come up with questions that are typical for a beginner. Considering saxyvibes you seem to be a pro or semi-pro player. Which brings me to the conclusion that, if you cannot play your soprano half properly, it is most likely the instrument make that causes your problems. I would expect that you have a set embochoure and can master intonation.

Iam a long way from your level of playing, but my Yamaha YSS675 soprano is no beast at all. On my soprano I have to push the mouthpiece almost all the way onto the cork. Of several different mouthpieces I own only 1 allows for about 1/3 of the cork to stick out. All others are at around 1 - 3 mm from the end. Judging by the discoloration of the cork as seen on the neck lying in the your sax case, I would say you need to push it significantly more to the end. One thing I realized recently. My critical note is middle Cis. It is noticable lower than all other notes on my soprano. Used to tune to B and check D as well to find a position with be best compromise and play it with a quite firm embochoure. That brought everything in tune but not middle Cis. Couldn't raise it to an acceptable intonation. In the end I pushed the mouthpiece on as described above and let the other notes fall by a more relaxed embochoure that left room to bring Cis up to tune.

Have fun with soprano. It's worth it.

Alphorn

Thank you for your reply. I have been playing the alto saxophone for about 20 years and I teach the instrument at University level. This is the first time ever that I have even touched a soprano saxophone, since I mostly played on alto and tenor. I believe that it is the instrument brand, since I picked up a professional soprano from a friend just to test it out and then I sounded fine.

I was in a hurry when buying this in strument and thought the black looked a bit different. The second octave on this instrument sounds fine, but the lower range is a complete mess. The mouthpiece that I am using is the one that came with the Suzuki soprano. As @Wade Cornell mentioned these type of mouth pieces are crap. I completely agree.

When I started out on the saxophone many years ago I just upgraded my mouth piece on my old jupiter and immediatly I could here an improvement in my tone and the embouchure was much easier to control.

Thank you all for your input. The instrument is nice to look at but I have decided to sell it, I am sticking to the Alto and Tenor for know till I find a decent soprano. This was an impulsive purchase on a drunken night. hahaha

Kind regards,

Eduan

 

[Eduan Steenkamp]

 

[Wade Cornell]

Cheers Eduan, didn't realize you were already a pro player. Sorry to have been telling you how to suck eggs.

 

[Eduan Steenkamp]

Cheers Eduan, didn't realize you were already a pro player. Sorry to have been telling you how to suck eggs.

Not a problem, I should have mentioned that...but I enjoy going back to basics, it is the best way to learn.

 

[jbtsax]

Of all of the saxes, the soprano is the one most like singing or playing an oboe where you need to hear the pitch in your mind first and then quickly adjust the air and embouchure to play that pitch rather than the one the soprano wants to play---especially in the upper register.

 

[Stephen Howard]

This was an impulsive purchase on a drunken night. hahaha

This is more or less how most soprano players start out - the big difference being that you have the courage to admit it.

 

[ChartResources]

In playing soprano, one does have to do a bit more to adjust the pitch, but I can't recall ever having much of a problem. Perhaps that's because I also play clarinet, where embouchure is more crucial than it is in playing saxophone. Anybody agree?

 

[Nick Wyver]

embouchure is more crucial than it is in playing saxophone. Anybody agree?

No.

 

[Alphorn]

Indeed, I can play any saxophone significantly more out of tune than a clarinet. I started out on clarinet as a late bloomer about 6 years ago. Still think this was beneficial. Soprano was never as difficult to me as people prognosed it would be. Maybe, being used to a firm embouchure on a small mouthpiece helped me to play soprano. Anyway, I heartily disagree that embouchure is more crucial on clarinet. If there is something crucial about it, it is that you need a different one if you are aiming for a good clarinet sound.

Alphorn

 

[MandyH]

Do you only play alto & soprano?

Have you ever played any other Bb pitched instrument (clarinet, trumpet, tenor sax)?

The reason I ask is because I learnt Alto first, then Baritone. After a total of 3-4 years playing Eb pitched instruments, I added in tenor and I just could NOT play it.
There was nothing wrong with the sax, and if I recorded myself and listened back it sounded ok.
The problem lay in my ears/ brain!
The problem was that on fingering a note, any note, my ears and brain were not expecting the note that came out of the instrument.
It took me a year of dedicated Tenor sax playing to re-train my ears.

Once I’d got to that point, adding in soprano (and then clarinet) was relatively easy.