SYOS

Saxophones alto sax labelled Lincoln

C_Claudemonster

Formerly saxgirl22
Subscriber
Messages
399
Location
England, UK
Hiya, I wondered if there is an expert out there who can advise me on the above! I have seen a nice looking nickel plated alto sax on ebay for £100. It is labelled only as 'Lincoln' and nothing else. It doesn't look Chinese but slightly vintage (70's) and I wondered if anyone knew where these saxes are made? I'm looking for a cheap alto but don't want an old Chinese horn cos it's likely to be a pile of toot! The key guards look quite nice, a bit like the b&m champion saxes and the brass looks to be fairly thick too. The bell is also offset at an angle to the left which makes the sax look more compact and the bell brace is straight like the older vintage horns. (Hope I've got my terminology right here) It's a bit of a risk because £100 is £100 to me and I don't want to waste it on a rubbish sax! Which is why i'm hoping someone may be able to give me an answer over the next few hours if possible! :)
Many thanks and most appreciated
 

TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,232
Location
Skabertawe, South Wales
Hi There!

If you are looking for a reasonably priced alto sax then I would recommend the Earlham Alto Sax currently advertised on www.preloved.co.uk for £140 (used, in spotless condition - comes with Yamaha 4c mouthpiece etc). Worth a look, and a known quantity.

Kind regards
Tom:cool:

If you do a Google search you will find that they go for about £600 new (Bill Lewington/Don Mackrill)!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jonf

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,623
Location
Betelgeuse
Hi there

I hd a look at the one on eBay, and I'd be wary of it if I were you. The keywork looked pretty clumsy, and the ad itself didn't give me any confidence. It was so badly described I would assume the seller isn't a sax player. I've bought loads of saxes from eBay, but I tend to stick to ones where I have some degree of comfort that the seller actually knows how to play the sax. It might be fine, but personally I wouldn't take the chance.

In the final analysis, a hundred quid is the very bottom end of the market, and if you take a chance you can probably sell it on for the same money, but I would think you could do better. At this level, unless you're very lucky, you're going to get somethng Chinese or Taiwanese, but some of these are absolutely fine. The one Tom mentions is a Taiwanese model, and these are OK, bought by lots of schools. A much safer bet.

Whatever you get, budget a few quid to get a technician to check it over and tweak any shortcomings in the action.

Jon
 
OP
C_Claudemonster

C_Claudemonster

Formerly saxgirl22
Subscriber
Messages
399
Location
England, UK
Hi, thanks for the replies and advice about this sax. It has helped me a great deal as I gave it miss. It turns out that when I asked the seller a question he or she could barely string a sentence together in English anyway so nothing made sense! I have since purchased a Reynolds Elkhart alto sax from a shop not to far from me where they are specialist in all things saxophone. It set me back £280 and it is a super sounding sax. I am going to check out the serial no a bit later to get dates and info on reynolds saxes as all I know is that they are american. Mine has no engraving and it looks almost as if it hasn't had many playing days with just a few surface scratches on the bell. I'm over the moon with this sax :) If anyone does know anything about Reynolds then please post!Thanks again
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
22,004
Location
Just north of Munich
You may have got lucky.. According to this, it was made by Martin.

http://reviews.ebay.com/Saxophone-Stencil-List_W0QQugidZ10000000006282122

But Buescher made Elkharts and both Martin and Beuscher were based in Elkhart. I also read somewhere that the newer Elkharts were made in the far East.

If it's a Martin, the tone holes will be soldered on.

Take a look on saxpics.com, lots of history there and lots of photos. Should be fun, even if you don't find your sax.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
C_Claudemonster

C_Claudemonster

Formerly saxgirl22
Subscriber
Messages
399
Location
England, UK
hiya, thanks for this info. I just read this and think mine certainly may be a Martin sax. I have doubts that it would be far eastern as it says on the bell 'Reynolds' and Elkhart, Ind. below this So i'm guessing the sax is a Reynolds and Elkhart, Indiana is where it was made. It does look newer about late
70's I would say but the keywork is very modern for this age. Even so it plays great but I would be ever so slightly dissapointed if it wasn't American! (that's the snob in me :) )
Thanks again
 
OP
C_Claudemonster

C_Claudemonster

Formerly saxgirl22
Subscriber
Messages
399
Location
England, UK
bit more info from me on the sax.the s/n is 7029675, above the s/n it says SX53JN, and below the s/n it reads 'R.O.C'
I cannot find anything on any of the sax websites for this s/n. It has too many digits for even the late reynolds saxes so i'm confused now! the keys on it are not mother of pearl inlay but something that is weird with this sax is that down the right hand side of it where the keys are mounted it has an extra plate of brass added on all the way down the side of the sax! The lacquer is a darker honey colour and the needles seem to be very thick and sturdy. The keyork is as modern as one of today's horns. If it was made in the far east would it be stated on the horn anywhere? If it was an 80's far east instrument would it be naff? like so many were 20+ years ago?
Thanks! :)
 

jonf

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,623
Location
Betelgeuse
Before anyone jumps in and tells you ROC means it was made in the Republic of China, don't panic. I don't think it was. I also don't think it was made by Martin, either. Reynolds was a long standing brass instrument maker, which was eventually bought out by F E Olds, American instrument maker based in, you've guessed it, Elkhart, Indiana. So, I think it is a Reynolds sax made at the Olds factory in Elkhart. The R O C will refer to Reyolds Olds Company (or Corporation), nothing to do with China. Whatever any web pundits say, you don't see R O C on items coming from China. Something made in China will say 'Made in China', R O C is just not used to denote that country of origin. The main reason for this is that Republic of China is simply not the name of the place. It is referred to as either China, or properly 'The Peoples' Republic of China.'

As an aside, some saxes have their country of origin on them, lots don't. I currently have two Yanagisawas which do state their country of origin as Japan, and four Bueschers, a Conn and two Chineses saxes, none of which do.

The extra plate of brass you refer to is what's called 'ribbed contruction', and is a sign of a good quality sax. So, sounds like you got a pretty decent quality horn which should sound good and last well.

Now, time to stop fretting over its origin and start enjoying playing the beast!

Jon
 

TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,232
Location
Skabertawe, South Wales
The Reynolds firm produced saxes between 1960 and 1964 at Elkhart, where several other brass manufacturers were based. I have an FA Reynolds Argenta Trumpet from 1961 (SN 61753) which produces a lovely sound. Other people talk quite highly of their saxes, which are really quite rare. Whereas used Olds instruments are going up and up in price, Reynolds are still cheap by comparison, apart from a Reynolds Mendez trumpet.

So, do celebrate your great good fortune at having quite a rare instrument that should play very well...:w00t::w00t:;}

Kind regards
Tom:cool:

I have it on good authority that many of these instruments did not have serial numbers as they were collaborations between several companies (Martin, Olds, Reynolds & possibly Buescher) and no one company took final ownership during this period.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
C_Claudemonster

C_Claudemonster

Formerly saxgirl22
Subscriber
Messages
399
Location
England, UK
super! thanks for this reply. I have just breathed a sigh of relief! I must stop being a snob and get along to band to toot some tunes on it :)
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
22,004
Location
Just north of Munich
ROC - Republic of China, aka Taiwan. >:) (PRC is, of course, mainland China as Jon said).

ROC - Legendary giant bird that could carry an elephant (and eat it...) >:)

SX53JN seems to be the model number, a quick google turned up a few references to Reynolds SX53JN Alto sax.

However, having stirred the pot a little, I have to say that I bow to Jon's superior knowledge, especially as he's aided and abetted by the legendary OLds owning buttonless sax blower.... About the only funny for me here is the S/N. Seems to be very high for a US made sax. Would be good to see some photos, though. And as was said - just get on and enjoy playing it. History's nice, but the proof of the pudding......
 
Last edited:

TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,232
Location
Skabertawe, South Wales
There is some uncertainty here.

1. Olds and Reynolds closed in 1979, but FE Olds (at www.feolds.com) hold the product names so could conceivable be producing saxes after 1979 - nothing currently listed as being produced by Reynolds other than a vague statement on the website about ".....New Reynolds Instruments......"

2. With regard to serial numbers FE Olds serial no's are 700000+ from 1970, and Martin Instruments SN's are at 700000+ from 1964. When Reynolds closed in 1979 the SN's were up to about 290000 only.

3. I have seen a copy of a 1973 Reynolds Price List which lists saxes with model numbers beginning SX but no 53 or JN mentioned.

4. If the Reynolds name was bought then it could be used on instruments made anywhere - they were at Elkhart until 1964 only, then moved to Abilene, Texas.

My speculation is that it could date from 1964, be a Martin stencil, and have a Martin serial number, which would support the Elkhart idea. However it may be mixed parentage as Reynolds instruments from this time usually had a small shield engraved on the bell with the words "RMC" on it.
Still a bit of a mystery, nevertheless...:blush:

Kind regards
Tom:cool:
 
OP
C_Claudemonster

C_Claudemonster

Formerly saxgirl22
Subscriber
Messages
399
Location
England, UK
Thanks for all the replies. I think I have come to the conclusion that my sax is American. The reason being is that lastnight I took it to my band rehearsil and popped it on the stand to show people. As I turned my back it wasn't quite on the stand safely and it fell backwards off the stand onto the floor. I cannot express how gutted I was that this happened! Having said this the damage was minimal with only the low c keyguard getting squashed and one of the keys pushed in. None of the body of the sax was dented or knocked out of line in any way which makes me think it is maybe American (built like a tank to withstand abuse from clumsy people like me!)
If it was made in Taiwan I'm pretty sure that the body would have seen some damage due to the thinner brass that is used in the far east! So I guess I kept pushing my luck for an answer and I got my terrible just deserts! It's going to the shop on saturday for a check over and some minor surgery :( I will see if I can post some general pics of the sax sometime soon when I work out how!
 

TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,232
Location
Skabertawe, South Wales
Hi There!

Sorry to hear about your accident.:shocked:

Many "Far Eastern" (Taiwanese) instruments are very sturdy and well built, so I'd be careful not to stereotype. I have 2 Taiwanese instruments (John Packer/Rath Trombone and Bauhaus Walstein Curved Soprano Sax) - both made from good quality sturdy materials and make a high quality sound. Poor quality instruments can be produced anywhere on the planet so it can be useful to gen up on what is out there, and keep up with developments.

Kind regards
Tom:cool:
 
OP
C_Claudemonster

C_Claudemonster

Formerly saxgirl22
Subscriber
Messages
399
Location
England, UK
Hi Tom,
Fair comment. I have a jupiter tenor sax and I've had it for 10 years and never had a thing go wrong with it and it plays superbly with a lawton m/piece! so i guess I have to learn a bit about these things and not stereotype as it is easily done and I'm easily led. I'm popping it into the shop on sat so hopefully it will be all better for next week!
:)
Colleen
 

samtanz1305

New Member
Messages
7
Location
indonesia
Hiya, I wondered if there is an expert out there who can advise me on the above! I have seen a nice looking nickel plated alto sax on ebay for £100. It is labelled only as 'Lincoln' and nothing else. It doesn't look Chinese but slightly vintage (70's) and I wondered if anyone knew where these saxes are made? I'm looking for a cheap alto but don't want an old Chinese horn cos it's likely to be a pile of toot! The key guards look quite nice, a bit like the b&m champion saxes and the brass looks to be fairly thick too. The bell is also offset at an angle to the left which makes the sax look more compact and the bell brace is straight like the older vintage horns. (Hope I've got my terminology right here) It's a bit of a risk because £100 is £100 to me and I don't want to waste it on a rubbish sax! Which is why i'm hoping someone may be able to give me an answer over the next few hours if possible! :)
Many thanks and most appreciated
hey saxgirl22 is this your sax?

P_20180909_223609.jpg

P_20180909_223556.jpg

P_20180909_223632.jpg
 

Alice

Psychedelic
Subscriber
Messages
5,318
Location
Kent
I was actually looking out for Colin when I saw that this thread had been bumped from that long ago.
 
Top Bottom