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Saxophones A Selmer is not always a Selmer!?!?

thomsax

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3,793
I read some information about Selmer copies that are stamped and engraved as a Selmer. The serialnumber is not Selmers own. In the repairshops Selmers shows up and when they start to work on them they realize that the horn is not built by Selmer.

Other brands and products that the firm think you should keep your eys on are: Yanagisawa (saxes), Vandoren (reeds and mpc) and BG (straps and ligatures).

The link in Swedish: http://www.windcorp.se/sv/news/4510

Thomas
 
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milandro

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2,483
Yes, I have seen (and reported to the Dutch importer and the site they were offered on) some VERY bad counterfeits. The only thing Selmer was a laser etched Selmer name with a logo that didn't even look too much like the real thing.

So, only a blind man could take these horns for a Selmer but yes they are there and if someone is offered then as fallen off a lorry or in a pub they are probably going to be prey of less than honest people.

I think the only people who could fall for it are indeed people with no previous experience in the saxophone world.

Same thing for Vandoren. Fakes are there and the introduction of the vacuum packed Vandorens has something t do with this too ( Fakes are the older types not vacuum packed). Vandoren warns about fakes on their site .

Unfortunately this is a world where even medicinal drugs are faked and some even found their way into some chemists.

Fake Guitars are everywhere and these days buying a second hand Gibson or Fender needs great expertise because there are very good chances that it would be a fake.
 

jonf

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3,680
Unfortunately this is a world where even medicinal drugs are faked and some even found their way into some chemists.

.
This is a multi-million pound global business. The office where I work has a team of over 100 staff employed by the medicines regulator for the UK trying to keep it under control, and they have successful prosecutions ongoing all the time. Almost all the fake drugs (mostly fake sildenafil citrate and the like (look it up on Wikipedia)) are flogged over the web (so a warning, people, never, ever buy pharmaceuticals of any sort from unverified web sources) but last year, for the first time in the UK, fakes did briefly make it into the legitimate supply chain. Thankfully swiftly stopped and action taken. Ironically, protective action was taken by the type of public sector workers the coalition government is trying to eradicate.
 

milandro

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yes, this is already bad enough in the western countries but think of what happens when fake drugs being sold (and not only for e.d.) in non western countries to people whom not only don't get to cure themselves because they use fakes but also because some of these fakes are actually harmful! :( ........sorry about the digression!
 

Jack

Member
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123
at least in Guitars, if a Gibson says Gibbon, you know someone has been monkeying around!
 

jonf

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3,680
yes, this is already bad enough in the western countries but think of what happens when fake drugs being sold (and not only for e.d.) in non western countries to people whom not only don't get to cure themselves because they use fakes but also because some of these fakes are actually harmful! :( ........sorry about the digression!
This does happen, but not as much as you might think. Not because of any sense of decency among counterfitters, it's just that there's a huge amount more profit in selling fake anti-impotence and lifestyle drugs to affluent westerners.

You're right about the harm. Some fakes have too little of the active, some too much. Some none at all. Comedians might tell jokes about the effects of an overdose of sildenafil citrate, but in reality, it's a fairly powerful drug having an effect on the cardiovascular system. People can and have died as a result of taking fake drugs. That's why it's really important to never buy such things from the internet, however tempting it is to cut out a potentially embarrassing visit to the doctor. The internet's fine for music forums, but a truly dangerous place to buy pharmaceuticals.
 

milandro

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I hate to disagree but the problem concerning developing countries and fake medicines is really big. Is not only sinadafil (serious though tat is) we are talking about.

" The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that up to 1% of medicines available in the developed world are likely to be counterfeit. This figure rises to 10% globally, although in some developing countries they estimate one third of medicines are counterfeits"
Deadlink Removed
 

jonf

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3,680
It's an alarming headline, isn't it, particularly when it comes from WHO and is repeated by MHRA (my employer). However, although it may be accurate you need to be careful when interpreting this sort of headline. First off, it's an estimate, and countries with a newly developing market for pharma products tend to have extremely poor stats on prescribing. Then there is the issue that the countries with the highest susceptibility to counterfeits of key health (as opposed to lifestyle) drugs are the ones with very small, and developing markets for drugs. Poor regulation goes hand in hand with a new market. So a third of a very small market is still a a small amount overall. The proportion of global counterfeits which are marketed at developing economies is tiny - the overwhelming majority are directed at the developed world, and the biggest class in these, by a long way are anti-impotence drugs.

It is, nevertheless, absolutely despicable that any criminals would seek to make a profit out of selling fake drugs to a developing market where standards of regulation and product awareness are poor. The safety standards used by the legitimate manufacturers are incredibly high - counterfeit standards are appalling.

One of the positive things the MHRA has been doing is looking beyond our borders and trying to promote higher standards of regulation in other countries, trying to deal with the issue as a true global problem, which is what it is. The other side of the attack is to persuade the countries where, historically a lot of the fake drugs have come from - India, China and Egypt - to come down hard on counterfeiters. This is having good effect in India where there is a lot of interest in cleaning up production, as there is also a large and high quality legitimate supply there. China too is making significant steps in cracking down on counterfeiters for much the same reason.

It's a difficult, and emotive issue, and I'm happy that in the UK at least we employ a large staff to try to keep counterfeits under control - far more than most European countries, which generally have just a handful of staff employed in this capacity. The biggest risk to health from counterfeits in developing markets comes where the drug market expands more quickly than the regulatory regime needed to keep the supply chain clean. Counterfeiters are utterly immoral and would think nothing of exploiting such potential.

Incidentally, all the efforts the MHRA takes to regulate medicines is costly. But who pays? The taxpayer? No, it's the legitimate pharma industry. Medicines regulation gets no money from the treasury at all, it's entirely funded by licence fees of various sorts payed by the pharmaceutical industry.

Jon
 

Targa

Among the pigeons
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It is, nevertheless, absolutely despicable that any criminals would seek to make a profit out of selling fake drugs Jon
Criminals are not usually noted for their morality, that's why they are criminals.
 

jonf

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3,680
Criminals are not usually noted for their morality, that's why they are criminals.
Absolutely. I used the term deliberately, though, as some counterfeiters like to pretend that they're offering a 'service' and are different from 'common criminals'. They're not, and they all end up in the same prisons when caught. Which is a good thing.
 
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