A few observations on the King Super 20 tenor from a repair tech's perspective.

[jbtsax]

I just completed an overhaul on a beautiful and well maintained King Super 20 for a customer who wanted Chocolate Roo Extreme pads installed (which could be the topic for another thread). As I worked on this beautiful instrument, the workmanship and ingenuity in design that went into this "American classic" really made me appreciate the craftsmen of that era. I am going to list the features that impressed me the most.

• soldered on toneholes so stable that they required almost no leveling to be perfectly flat
• brass keys with steel hinge tubes much less susceptible to bending and wear (but a real pain to swedge)
• headless pointed pivot screws each with its own lock nut for perfect key adjustment and screws that don't come loose
• the large number of keys mounted on pivot screws rather than hinge rods reduces problems with bent mechanisms
• high quality blued steel springs as strong and efficient as the day they were installed at the factory
• a small steel pin in the tracks for flat springs to ride upon so they do not wear into the brass
• the small flat spring on the underside of the palm F to remove lost motion in the front F mechanism---genius
• the silver neck and bell need a mention, not for practicality, but for the beautiful cosmetics they provide
• the evenness of the scale and the excellent intonation from top to bottom
• the bell keys, low C and Eb stopped at their open position by a "foot" with quieting material instead of a key felt above
• the low C key is equipped with a "double arm" for stability---possibly one of the first brands to have this feature

There were just two elements that I wished were better. One is the softness of the brass in the keys and key cups in contrast to the hardness of the steel hinge tubes. The other is the "stuffiness" of the D even with the low C as open as possible. It is acceptable when pushed with enough air. The sax is shown in a Hiscox case with the "plush" interior.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Steel hinge tubes?

 

[jbtsax]

Steel hinge tubes?

I checked them with a magnet after discovering they were difficult to "swedge". I was surprised too.

 

[rhysonsax]

Steel hinge tubes?

Nickel ?

"The element Nickel (Ni) is one of the few ferromagnetic metals. Ferromagnetic means they are attracted to magnets and can be magnetized themselves. Most metals aren't magnetic with the exception of iron, nickel, cobalt, gadolinium, neodymium and samarium."

Rhys

 

[jbtsax]

Nickel ?

"The element Nickel (Ni) is one of the few ferromagnetic metals. Ferromagnetic means they are attracted to magnets and can be magnetized themselves. Most metals aren't magnetic with the exception of iron, nickel, cobalt, gadolinium, neodymium and samarium."

Rhys

Thanks. I didn't know that. They may have been nickel or nickle plated. The material was certainly much harder than brass.

 

[JayeNM]

Yup, truly one of the greatest sax models ever produced. Was this one Cleveland or Eastlake ?

 

[Stephen Howard]

Thanks. I didn't know that. They may have been nickel or nickle plated. The material was certainly much harder than brass.

I was gonna say!
Steel hinges tubes (barrels) would be asking for trouble - one spot of rust and it really would be game over.
You could, in theory, get away with stainless steel - but that has problems of its own (been there, seen that).

As for the difficulty in swedging the nickel silver barrels, I mentioned it in my review - it's knuckle-cracking stuff...to the point where you end up putting the swedging pliers in a vice, just to get enough pressure at the jaws.

It's a great horn, though - and yeah, I'd echo those points you made about it...and I'd add that I just love the quirky spring cradles.

 

[jbtsax]

Yup, truly one of the greatest sax models ever produced. Was this one Cleveland or Eastlake ?

Don't know. How can you tell?

 

[GCinCT]

Here is an ad for the Super 20:

Super 20 Ad

The rods and tubes are nickel silver That was one of the 20 points of excellence that gave the horn its name.

I have a Cleveland alto and I love it. It is by far the best saxophone I have ever played.

On the bell, the Cleveland horns say "HN White Co. Cleveland Ohio" the Eastlakes say "King Musical Instrument Co. Eastlake, Ohio".

 

[jbtsax]

Yup, truly one of the greatest sax models ever produced. Was this one Cleveland or Eastlake ?

Don't know. How can you tell?

 

[GCinCT]

@jbtsax I zoomed in on the photo of the horn you worked on. It's a Cleveland.

 

[jbtsax]

@jbtsax I zoomed in on the photo of the horn you worked on. It's a Cleveland.

I love "the wisdom of the hive". (It shows there are lots of "sons of bees" on the internet.)

Thanks to my friend @RyanCannonball for that clever joke.

 

[GCinCT]

You know, in all fairness, I should add that I really haven’t played many different horns so my sample size is very small. But I do love my Super 20.

 

[Ivan]

So you're saying....

Over engineered

 

[kevgermany]

Nickel silver... Hard, harder to polish once it gets tarnished and not good for people with a nickel allergy. But can look good and will last...

 

[Stephen Howard]

Nickel silver... Hard, harder to polish once it gets tarnished and not good for people with a nickel allergy. But can look good and will last...

Nickel silver's not that much harder to polish than brass, if at all.
Nickel, on the other hand, is a bear.

 

[jbtsax]

Nickel silver's not that much harder to polish than brass, if at all.
Nickel, on the other hand, is a bear.

I have had good success polishing nickel plated keys by buffing them using Music Medic's "blue hubble" compound.

 

[kevgermany]

Nickel silver's not that much harder to polish than brass, if at all.
Nickel, on the other hand, is a bear.

I have had good success polishing nickel plated keys by buffing them using Music Medic's "blue hubble" compound.

Depends how far it's gone. Needs an abrasive compound which can get into the hinges. Also in bad cases plenty of pressure. Seems ok if you keep on top of it, but if neglected...