PA & Amps A basic sound rig for visiting bands?

rhysonsax said:
they don't really know what to do with the horn sections
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Unfortunately most absolutely do not have any understanding of what to do with horn sections in terms of sound balance between the horns and within the band UNLESS they travel/tour with the band which is usually a top notch pro band.

One good option would be that your band hires and pays for the same sound person and PA system for every gig that your band plays. That would be a person who has some years of experience with PA systems. It would be with the understanding that the sound person will listen to your concerns and work with you all to obtain a good balanced sound and will be there on every gig. It would also be good to have your rehearsals with that person and sound system.

If you do not use the same person and PA system on every gig, it will be a gamble on all future performances. Just depends on what your members want for the good of the band.
 
John Laughter said:
Unfortunately most absolutely do not have any understanding of what to do with horn sections in terms of sound balance between the horns and within the band UNLESS they travel/tour with the band which is usually a top notch pro band.

One good option would be that your band hires and pays for the same sound person and PA system for every gig that your band plays. That would be a person who has some years of experience with PA systems. It would be with the understanding that the sound person will listen to your concerns and work with you all to obtain a good balanced sound and will be there on every gig. It would also be good to have your rehearsals with that person and sound system.

If you do not use the same person and PA system on every gig, it will be a gamble on all future performances. Just depends on what your members want for the good of the band.
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Thinking back, the problems have often come when the PA and sound engineer have been provided by the venue or event and our band isn't the only one playing.

The sort of concert we usually play doesn't have a big fee for us and out of that we often have to pay for deps, MD and maybe a singer.

Rhys
 
rhysonsax said:
usually play doesn't have a big fee
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I understand about the fee.

I have played many gigs over the years that have several bands in one concert with the same sound company. One just has to hope for the best outcome. Live sound with a large band can be difficult especially with several bands using the same stage and PA.
 
At least three parts to make a concert successful:

Artists/musicians.

Organizer.

Audience.

It's the organizer that provide sound and light. Often bands have their own equipment and some members of the band knows how to deal with PA. Cut costs for the organizer and also some extra money for the band. Win-Win. It's just working when it's just one band/act.

On smaller events/venue places with 3-4 bands involved, a "back line" is necessary. The organizer tells the band what kind of equipment that is going to be used; drumkit, bass amp, guitar amp, acoustic piano, keyboard amp ...... . The band inform the organizer how many vocal microphones+stands they need. Some kind of stage plot from the band is also good for organizer. Vocal microphones are often something in the SM 58 standard. Instrument microphones in the sm 57 style.

I think the soundcheck is just for bands to make sure that things are working in the way it should. You can have a very good sound on the soundcheck. But when room/venue place is packed with 200-300 persons the sound change. And if it's noisy audience ..... an out door gig/concert.

How does a band prepare before a gig? To play/rehears in a basement, woodshed is not he same as play on a stage like 6x4 meters, 8x6 meters ..... . Sometimes horn players must hold back and sometimes blow a little bit harder (louder) ..... .

It's easy to blame the sound guys bad performance. It's often the bands that are not ready. I used to arrange RockSax workshops/days, Rock & Blues ensemble, bands to rehears with a conductor ..... . Professional players/musicians that were teaching/leading the workshops/days. Not so many bands/horn players that was interested. "We don't need Rock & Roll Saxophone/Horn workshop, .... " and when I went to listen to the band on a gig/concert they would need all help they could get. When the horns sounds like "salivation army horns" (nothing wrong with the Salivation Army and their music, I support them ...) and playing a Ray Charles/JoeCocker song, somebody must tell them what to do? I don't think it's so much about the PA/sound guys.

@rhysonsax the big band you play in sounds good.

Off topic. Far out. Maybe more a teaching post ???
 
A sound engineer that doesn't know the music and/or doesn't regularly work with the band is rarely, if ever, going to give you a great sound. If you're lucky you'll get a good sound, for which you should be incredibly happy about.

Generally, though, you're lucky if you don't get something that simply sounds bad. There are some great engineers out there but very few with a wide range of genres in their arsenal. Throw slightly unusual instruments or line-ups into the mix and you expose the holes in their experience.

Sadly few bands ever hear the FoH mix so the engineer rarely, if ever, receives any genuine constructive criticism to help them improve. And so often, if the FoH sounds bad, it's always the band's fault. 😉

Engineers don't like it but it is possible to have a member of the band mix the sound. Even more annoying for engineers is that it's possible for that band member to create a vastly superior sound to anything the in-house engineer could ever produce. It's not ideal but it can be done if you have someone in the band with a little tech savvy and a half decent ear.
 
Of couse, the room and the place is also important for the sound. Today we are playing (band) and listening (audience) in places and rooms that were not meant/build for amplified music. Cool places but it's hard to get a good sound. I was hoping that the covid19 panademic should give us better and new venue places/ concert rooms.

It's not easy to get a good sound in an old cinema (built in 1910). The cinema was built for silent movies. How to get an acceptable sound in the old cinema? We tried differnt ways. Just the snare- and bass drum, front sax and vocals went through the PA.
 
Vetinari said:
Several pa's i've heard recently the sound engineer has ser the top frequncies too loud, the mid frequencies too low and overall volume too loud.
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That's my opinion as well. Even at smaller production/lower level the digital meets the analog world. Maybe we must except that?
The days when they placed a microphone 0,5 m from the singer are gone. So back to basic can be an alternative as well. The band should trust their own ears and be observant during the gig.
 
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thomsax said:
Always, A person that knows the music must be on the soundcheck.
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Absolutely agree. But then if the sound engineer won't take advice or must fiddle with the balance of instruments during the show, you can still be left with compromised sound for the audience.

Ideally you want a trusted person on the desk throughout or at least for the first few numbers.

Surprisingly to me, one of the most painful PA experiences I have had was for a big band of top US jazz players performing as part of the London Jazz Festival and being recorded by the BBC. I don't know who was doing the sound engineering for us in the audience, but every single instrument had its own microphone (not necessarily a problem) and there seemed to be a volume war going on so that the overall effect was excruciatingly loud for the audience. I didn't return after the interval.

Big band jazz is mainly acoustic music that sometimes need sound reinforcement for some instruments and for soloists, depending on the venue size and acoustics. It isn't rock music and the band has plenty of dynamic firepower already due to its size and the volume of individual instruments.

IMHO of course.

Rhys
 
rhysonsax said:
But then if the sound engineer won't take advice
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I have never met one over the years that would take advice or a friendly suggestion.
I am just happy if he turns me up on my solos :clapping: if I am "sitting in" with a band.

So glad that my "party band" for the past 20 plus years takes care of our own balance, volume and "working the mics" all night. No sound person allowed. That makes for a real fun time : )
 
To listen, play and organize Rock & Roll and R&B concerts is fun. Most of the bands are amateur bands and sometimes "spiced up" with professional players. A laid back attitude among the involved parts.

The "sound engineers" can be young students that are studying "sound and light". Absolutely no problem. They are also having a fun!!!! They can be active on the board as well. The song list with notes is also can also be close to the board. Maybe also improvise? When the funky version of "Mercy, Mercy, Mercy" is played, with the big Bb bass tuba, we are not thinking about balance the sound. The microphone is way down in the bell of the tuba. We just want to tear down the old cinema with the tuba. Balance or unbalance .... it's just fun.
 
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