M/Pieces - Ligs 4c or 5c mouthpiece for starter on tenor

[ukwoody]

Evening all.

I need to replace the extremly cheap mpc that i got with my s/h Eyvett buffet crampon tenor the other week (the cheap metal lig is twisted and the mpc has been descibed as pathetic by a namir member).
I have a tightish budget, but was considering the yamaha mouthpiece.
two questions
1) for a new starter on the tenor is the 4 or 5c lay better?
2) should I go for the standard cheap plastic one, or go that little step further and go for the custom (ebonite)model - working on the principle it might help tha bit more and get the best you can afford.(or is there any other cheapish mpc worth considering - but budget is about £80 max!)

by the way, I do realise it's not worth getting too good a mouthpiece, nor worrying about too good a setup for quite a while yet, but I do NEED to replace my current one.
I shall also get a rovner dark lig at the same time.

all comments much appreciated.

cheers all
woody

 

[Mamos]

hi woody

When I bought my new tenor from sax.co.uk it came with a 4C yamaha mouthpiece but I would say go for the 5C and play around with reed strengths

mamos

 

[Pee Dee]

Hiya Woody
Personally, as a beginner, I would go for the cheaper Yamaha 4.
I started that way. The Yammi's are very good for the price in my opinion. After 2-1/2 yrs playing I now blow a Vandoren Java T75, which is about a 7/8 gap. You'll know when the 4 is getting a little restrictive, after about 6 months in my case, then go for the 5, and after another 6 months or so start thinking about a more expensive mpc, and a bigger gap. Having a more pricey mpc might improve your learning, but at the end of the day it is down to your abilities. The most expensive mpc in the world won't necessarily make you a better player, just a prouder one, which could have a psychological advantage, depending on your ego. A good player should sound good on any mpc and reed set up IMHO, the right set up only makes it easier to obtain that elusive 'perfect' sound.
A 1-1/2 - 2 reed is a good start too. After a few years playing you may have only moved up to a 3 anyway, or at least you may have tried harder reeds, and then, with a wider mpc gap, go back to a 2 or 2-1/2.
Well, that's my take on the subject, but no doubt others will contradict. Seeking a solution to a problem, often creates more questions than answers. Good luck!!;}

 

[jonf]

I'd stick with the standard plastic one if you're on a budget, as they're pretty high quality and very good value. To be honest, though, I'd go for the 6c. Even that one is a really quite narrow tip opening - if you check the Yamaha web site they will tell you in mm what the opening is. Most manufacturers quote in inches to three decimal places, so you'll need to confirm. If memory serves me right something like an Otto Link 6 (often recommended as suitable for a beginner) is about a 0.90 inch opening whereas a Yamaha 6c is about 0.82. I think.

I don't personally go along with the idea that beginners need very narrow tip openings. When I started playing as a 15 year old (in about 1980!) I started on a Lawton 7, which is a 0.100 tip opening, and it was absolutely fine. Just don't go mad, get a pretty soft reed such as a 2 and I'm sure you'll be fine.

Good loook with it, and happy playing.

Jon

 

[ukwoody]

Thank you all for you comments. I have had an extremly kind offer by a member on here to try out a yam 5c for free and if I like it make a donation to Petes charity, so I'll order a Lig and do just that.
Thank you to the member concerned, he knows who he is!:welldone

regards
woody

 

[Rogerb]

I agree about something a bit wider .... my new BW M2 (a pro model) came with what I feel is an almost unplayably narrow mpc, marked 4C (it's not a genuine Yamaha...just a cheap copy). Athough i have been learning alto a while, I certainly don't have 'iron chops' !...only play a #6 on alto.
A 5C or 6C might be better for starting-out.

 

[Nick Cook]

I got a Yamaha 4C with my Tenor, and I keep thinking about getting a different one (GAS setting in!!), but my teacher says I sound fine with the 4C, so I'll be sticking with that for now!!

 

[DaveW]

If you don't get on with the Yam 5C Woody, have a look at the Rico Graftonite m/pieces. They are inexpensive and I like the one I got (not that that's much recommendation LOL)

 

[Saxlicker]

Hi Woody,

I think you have been handed a good solution by a genorous member regarding the yamaha's.
The yam 5C is still fairly small on tenor for my 2 penneth but everyone is different so good luck with that.

Regarding the info below,

Evening all.

by the way, I do realise it's not worth getting too good a mouthpiece, nor worrying about too good a setup for quite a while yet, but I do NEED to replace my current one.
I shall also get a rovner dark lig at the same time.

all comments much appreciated.

cheers all
woody

I have spent into the thousands in bite size chunks over the last 20 years on mouthpieces. It has been fun (until you stop and think about the cost I just wrote) :shocked: and each piece appeared to be right at the time so I wouldn't put a time period on when you should get a 'too good a set up'. Especially as a good set up is what is good for you and this may turn out to be the yam 5C!

But each piece steers you left, right, up or down on the road to finding tone and versatility you are after.
But when your chops (air stream to embouchure) develop to a strong experienced state, you reach a point where it's you that will come through the mouthpiece over and above it's inherent character. With in reason you'll be able to brighten it up and tone it down, make it fat, make it edgy subtone and scream. So all the swinging left or right on the mouthpiece journey to gain a bias in one particular direction becomes far less important.
So when trying your 5C, just make sure its comfortable, easy enough to blow, reed friendly and responds for you when you experiment with styles.

This advice comes to you from someone who is burried in mouthpieces 'just in case!' so do as I say not do as I do

 

[ukwoody]

Thanks guys. Saxlicker for some reason your post hasn't shown up as new so I missed it when you posted. apppologies.

Having finally had chance to test the yam mpc and the new lig I found it a delight to play (well the few notes I can manage,lol) so I have taken the member up on his very kind offer. A donation will be made to Petes fund tomorrow.

A true example of the excellent community spirit and understanding shown by members of this forum - that many other forums could learn by!

Thank you to the member concerned.

woody

 

[Stephen Howard]

In general I tend to recommend the brighter Yamaha pieces. The 4C is a good medium piece, but I find the 3C is an easier blow for beginners and tends to cope better with an unstable embouchure.

Over the years I've had a lot of clients come in with 'problems' on horns that have nothing wrong with them. Having them switch to a 3C has proved to be very effective.

Regards,

 

[Rogerb]

That really surprises me, Stephen .... although I bow to your much greater knowledge & experience

I don't regard myself as having a 'strong' embouchure(too old + too little practice!), but I felt that the '4C copy' which came with my BW tenor was very 'close' ...even a borrowed pukka Yam 6C seemed similar.....the tip-space felt almost too small to blow through!!

Maybe, after playing alto for a coupla years, the tenor embouchure will seem quite a bit 'looser' ? I am blowing my new PPT 7* with surprising ease (but not much skill)

 

[Stephen Howard]

Beginners often put too much of the piece into their mouth, and nearly always blow too hard. Using a wider tip opening compensates for this, but the resulting sound is likely to be 'honky'.

It's rather like beginners on recorder - they often struggle to get much more than a high-pitched whistle out of it at first. Subsequent practice teaches the student to control the airstream.

Regards,

 

[Saxlicker]

Thanks guys. Saxlicker for some reason your post hasn't shown up as new so I missed it when you posted. apppologies.

woody

Absolutely no need for that,
Anyway as you can see opinions and recommendations vary.
It just needs to be right for you so you don't struggle.
Enjoy!

 

[TomMapfumo]

Hi woody!

Just wanted to also recommend the Rico Graftonite mouthpieces - available from www.trevorjones.co.uk at £18.55 in various sizes of facing and chamber (graftonite is an unbreakable material, and the mpc was designed by chap called "Arnold Brilhart".

Kind regards from Swansea
Tom

 

[Tommy Ng]

Hi woody!

Just wanted to also recommend the Rico Graftonite mouthpieces - available from www.trevorjones.co.uk at £18.55 in various sizes of facing and chamber (graftonite is an unbreakable material, and the mpc was designed by chap called "Arnold Brilhart".

Kind regards from Swansea
Tom

Chartered accountant

 

[kevgermany]

A lot of the older white mouthpieces were made by Brilhart... Tonalin...