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Saxophones 127 years old tenor

Tommy Ng

Member
Messages
580
Very tempted to buy this tenor. Not sure how it sounds like :)

BTW, what is french tuning? Is it lower or higher?

Anyone has got any idea how much it worths?
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
21,947
He's probably guessing it means A=435, more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_pitch However, he's guessing and there's no guarantee without testing the horn, or measuring the tone hole positions and doing some calculations. And even then, there are a lot of assumptions to be made about the mouthpiece.

Pushing the mouthpiece futher on the cork will correct some of the flatness, but the net result is that the horn will be a little out of tune from top to bottom, which you'll need to compensate for (sharp at the top, flat at the bottom). At A=440, a semitone is roughly 26Hz - meaning it'll be about a fifth of a semitone flat, or 20 cents on a tuner.

However.... It's an old sax, with old keywork and probably a lot less accurate tuning from note to note than a modern instument. Old keywork means less easy to play. It also probably means you'll need to find an old/old style mouthpiece with a big round chamber to make it work. Two octave keys.... Short keyed range....

If you want it, treat it as a collectors item. Not as a playing horn. If it plays in tune and you can manage the keywork, it's a bonus.

Value - less than the seller would have you believe, but it's hard to put a number on it. If I was to buy it, I wouldn't want to go much past his minimum bid, unless I knew there was something really special about it that a collector would pay a lot for. But I know nothing about this horn, and it amy be worth more - or less.
 

trimmy

One day i will...
Messages
10,268
It'll be crap. Ok as an ornament though. Don't forget, in this case, warm=dull.
Nick, can you expand on your "crap" statement the reason i ask is.... I'm new to the sax and am constantly picking up tips/ideas/info through the cafe and also looking into buying a "older" sax (not as old as the tenor i may add) so any advice is welcome :)
 

Alley Cat

Member
Messages
64
so any advice is welcome :)
What sort of older sax are you looking for ? Do you have any particular makes, or models, in mind ? What period 1930's, 1940's or much later ?

I agree with Nick Wyver's comments about that tenor from a playing point of view.........it's strictly a collector's item.
 
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kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
21,947
Just took another look at it. I thought the starting pirce was 250, not 350.
 

Nick Wyver

noisy
Subscriber
Messages
5,949
Nick, can you expand on your "crap" statement the reason i ask is.... I'm new to the sax and am constantly picking up tips/ideas/info through the cafe and also looking into buying a "older" sax (not as old as the tenor i may add) so any advice is welcome :)
If you're used to the sound of modern saxes (say post 1950) then this sax will not sound terribly sax-like - it will be quieter and somewhat duller. Kevgermany expanded on the keywork and intonation issues.

I have to ask, though, why are you looking for an older sax?

You may need to ask yourself a few pertinent questions.

Are you the sort of person who prefers listening to vinyl lps, drives a vintage car which you maintain yourself, or uses a roll film camera and process the film yourself? If the answer to these is yes then a vintage sax may be the thing to go for.

If you like stuff to be reliable and work properly then you probably shouldn't be looking at old saxes.

So why do people buy them? It's "the sound", man. Modern saxes do not have "the sound". All well and good if you happen to like "the sound" of old saxes. I don't.

There is, of course, the priceless kudos which comes with playing an old sax - but you have to be able to play. It's no good proudly displaying your immaculate MkVI and sounding like the Les Dawson of the saxophone. You need to be able to rattle off a few Charlie Parker licks when you're warming up for the gig - just in case there are other players in the audience.

But, most of all, old saxes are not shiny (good or bad depending on your point of view).
 

Tommy Ng

Member
Messages
580
To me the only reason to buy this is i like antique and i like sax. Anyway, i am not prepared to bid more than my current bid, unless camelot is calling my name :)
 

trimmy

One day i will...
Messages
10,268
I have to ask, though, why are you looking for an older sax?

You may need to ask yourself a few pertinent questions.

Are you the sort of person who prefers listening to vinyl lps, drives a vintage car which you maintain yourself, or uses a roll film camera and process the film yourself? If the answer to these is yes then a vintage sax may be the thing
It's a 1961 Beauscher Aristocrat (selmer bundy alto) done a bit of research on them, a good beginner/intermediate sax, it's available at a good price for what iv'e seen them go for on sites.(imo)

I do prefer older cars (my present coupe is 14yrs old and have no intention of selling),older cars have character/style compared to modern cars which are imo bland and i do have a large collection of vinyl (collected when i was younger as all teens bought vinyl, or cassette in my era 70's 80's)
Camera, i must admit i use a quality digital (modern)

Iv'e heard the sax play and it does play well it was re-padded and serviced 18mnths ago, i just haven't played it as yet, iv'e had tonsilitis :(

You may have convinced me with your questions, i'll be trying it out on saturday, who knows ?

Ps. sorry tommy for hijacking your post
 
Messages
509
If you haven't read Stephen Howards Haynes Saxophone manual, then i would recommend it very highly,he covers the modern verses vintage sax issue and i think his reasoning is very sound.
there are in my mind, pros and cons to consider when buying any sax regardless of age and whilst i agree that good modern saxes are about as perfect in build quality and pitch etc as you will get, there is something about good vintage horns that just cant be put into words
 

Alley Cat

Member
Messages
64
Gosh!!!!!!!!!!! I won this sax ... what should i do next ?
Well done dude ! A very beautiful piece of craftsmanship that, I'm sure, will give you much pleasure to have in your home.

What should you do next ? The most important thing is to ensure that it isn't damaged before you get it home. Are you intending to collect it in person from the seller ? Collecting in person is what I'd do even if I had to make a long, and expensive, journey.

Second best, by a long way, is to get the seller to understand how important it is to give your tenor the maximum possible protection. Don't just assume they know how to pack a sax. It's heart breaking when a really old instrument that has survived so much is damaged by the oafs who work in parcel distribution.

If it's really not possible to collect in person sending this link may help.

http://www.cybersax.com/packsax.html
 

Tommy Ng

Member
Messages
580
Well done dude ! A very beautiful piece of craftsmanship that, I'm sure, will give you much pleasure to have in your home.

What should you do next ? The most important thing is to ensure that it isn't damaged before you get it home. Are you intending to collect it in person from the seller ? Collecting in person is what I'd do even if I had to make a long, and expensive, journey.

Second best, by a long way, is to get the seller to understand how important it is to give your tenor the maximum possible protection. Don't just assume they know how to pack a sax. It's heart breaking when a really old instrument that has survived so much is damaged by the oafs who work in parcel distribution.

If it's really not possible to collect in person sending this link may help.

http://www.cybersax.com/packsax.html
Hi

Thank you for the advice. I will collect it myself as it is not too far from where i work, save £30 delivery and more importantly i can have a look at the sax and possibly give it a blow before i pay for it :)
 

Alley Cat

Member
Messages
64
Hi

Thank you for the advice. I will collect it myself as it is not too far from where i work, save £30 delivery and more importantly i can have a look at the sax and possibly give it a blow before i pay for it :)
Excellent ! Let us know how you get on.
 
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