Reverb Demo

[Chris]

As started by Nick in the 'Breakfastroom'

'Reverb Demo'

For those that might like to know what they are listening too. the Reverb is from a standard pluggins in Cubase5.

1, Has no reverb
2, Facing the Audience, att 10, rel 16, mix 4%, Pre del 151, Rel time 1.61, Diff 80%, Wid 100%
3, Hall Arena, att10, rel10, mix12%, predel 70, Reltime 3.5, Diff 73, Wid100%
4, Hall Catedral 10, 10, 10%, 40, 7.00, 0, 100
5, French Stone Chapel. Mix17%
6, LA Studio(1) mix50%
7, Tunnel(1) Mix50%
8,Helms Deep, Att263, Rel986, Mix16%, PreDel500, Retime4.66, Diff50, Wid100

2,3,4,8 use the Roomworks pluggin
6,7 use the Reverance pluggin

Chris...

 

[Colin the Bear]

I use kjaerhus.

 

[TimboSax]

Helms Deep for me.

Signed,

A orc.

 

[Nick Wyver]

Helms Deep for me.

Signed,

A orc.

<a pedant writes>

I think you'll find that should be an Orc.

But I suppose it would asking to much to expect an Orc to know much about the finer points of English grammar.

 

[Chris]

It all depends on taste at the end of the day, plus what we want the reverb to do. Do we want it just to match the backing track, or do we want it to give a little life the sax. Or heaven forbid do we need it to hide playing flaws.
It's always going to be slightly contentious as we all hear things differently. Plus we all have rooms that we record in that are different as well, mic placement can also have a effect on what the sax sounds like not just tone but how much 'room' it picks up..

 

[Nick Wyver]

What I find off putting is a backing that sounds as if was recorded in an anechoic chamber and a solo track that was done in Canterbury Cathedral.

 

[Chris]

What I find off putting is a backing that sounds as if was recorded in an anechoic chamber and a solo track that was done in Canterbury Cathedral.

That would be a good example for someone to put the same reverb on both sax and backing track.

 

[Nick Wyver]

So you both sound like you're in a cathedral.

 

[TimboSax]

But I suppose it would asking to much to expect an Orc to know much about the finer points of English grammar.

Well d'uh!!

An young orc.

 

[rhysonsax]

I use kjaerhus.

Do you use the free Kjaerhus ? In Audacity I use their plugins including Classic Reverb with a preset called "Vocal Ambient" which seems to work quite well on sax.

One of the difficulties I have is trying to match the newly recorded sax to a pre-recorded backing track which may have little reverb or lots.

Rhys

 

[altissimo]

use as little reverb as you can manage - short decay times and fairly low in the mix - unless you want to sound like Jan Garbarek or want dub reggae effects - most rooms don't have as much reverberation as is available on those plugins. Piling loads on might sound nice, but it will also just turn to mush and all you can hear is the reverb...
are you so insecure about your playing that you want to hide behind additional effects?
If you are intent on using lots of reverb, try to set it up so you can hear it in your headphones and play to it, like you would in a real large building - eg - http://youtu.be/EzhIetkSQ4k and http://youtu.be/mUfo1BQPD7A

 

[Jamesmac]

I think reverb is a personal choice, and is usually dictated by the music genre.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Do you use the free Kjaerhus ? In Audacity I use their plugins including Classic Reverb with a preset called "Vocal Ambient" which seems to work quite well on sax.

One of the difficulties I have is trying to match the newly recorded sax to a pre-recorded backing track which may have little reverb or lots.

Rhys

Yes. There's a selection of presets. I pick the one that suits my mood or the feel of the piece. Sliding onto and off notes makes the reverb less prominent. A little compression seems to help with the mic I'm using. There's so much to get to grips with. I liked it when it was, plonk the radio cassette somewhere near and hit the red button. I try to not get too involved with the technical side of things. You can lose days playing with software. I'd rather be playing.

 

[kevgermany]

<a pedant writes>

I think you'll find that should be an Orc.

But I suppose it would asking to much to expect an Orc to know much about the finer points of English grammar.

'...too much...' Not '...to much...'

Sorry Nick, couldn't resist it

 

[Chris]

So less is more. It should, for home recordings be used to help us make the backing track and sax sound like they are in the same room. Perhaps, if players had total control over the backing tracks then it might be used differently from genre to genre.
I would think most backing tracks already have some reverb on the instruments, unless you have one of mine and asked for a dry one. No-one has yet. It's an interesting topic and it got me thinking.

 

[Nick Wyver]

'...too much...' Not '...to much...'

Sorry Nick, couldn't resist it

Aaargh!

Hoist by me own wotsit.

 

[Jamesmac]

I have the album, inside, by Flute player Paul Horn its recorded inside the Taj Mahal in India.
Using the natural reverb of the space. The material is Indian styled Mantras that he composed, and sound completely at home in the 10 to 12 second delay.

 

[Nick Wyver]

I haven't heard that in about 40 years. Good album.

New age before new age was invented.

 

[Clivey]

The 2 most shocking types of sound clips we often get to hear are the Ones with either Way too much Verb or Delay Echo and the completely dry ones that make the lead instrument stand out as if on it`s own. I`ll own up straight away to overuse in many occasions which really is detrimental to the mix making it muddy and ill-defined. The last thing you want when playing a rhythmic pattern tightly is to then go on to create any kind of delay unless you have the feedback synched correctly to the BPM which is the most creative way to do it in Modern Electronic music but not really very cool in retro ish music which most of us here seem to prefer.

Some producers and engineers are not keen on sharing hard earned tricks of the trade such as where reverb should go in the chain of effects and also on the business of Mixdown and I can see that in the last 20 years much of the Day to Day business of Demo and Ad recording has disappeared which makes them even more protective of their industry.
I have read here and at TOP Pete Thomas himself giving great advice regarding the placement of the various effects and it seems to be a bit of a convention that it gos on Post compression and EQ in individual tracks if required and then overall to meld the components together. How Much and how long is the Art and really the part that ears are for. I don`t think it ever hides bad playing,it`s more about bringing the piece together into a form that we can identify with as like a production we have heard in the past. Thats Sad I know but folks prefer to hear what they are used to and when an artist decides to break the mould the work is often just passed over as poorly and cheaply done. Back in the Day the amount of money flung at an Artist appeared the measure of their worth and Moguls like Jonathan King and Branson would allow their signings access to hugely expensive recording facilities for these recordings. In the UK Punk blew that out of the water but the polished recordings from the 70`s and 80`s still remained and I suppose became for lots and lots of people what purchased recorded music sounds like.
I could go on to further discuss computers and the Rave culture and it`s further influence on modern production methods but I assume none of us are using 4 track recorders with outboard FX anymore ( I`m probably wrong I know).... LOL LOL

 

[Jamesmac]

The guys that know how to use Reverb are the Film composers and their engineers, they need to create a mood. Directors like Tarentino used the 60,s 70,s pop songs to create a mis en sen or backdrop for his films. The scores of Bernard Hermann use a completely different approach to more modern film composers like John Williams. But both using the orchestra.
In a modest home recording all we have is our ears and a bit of equipment. But We can still create a mood with how we interpret a piece and how we use effects.