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Saxophones Conn Naked Lady

What about the L&Cs? Any advice?

L&C's, Lion and Crown? That's a nickname for Martin Comm II. There is crown and lion engraved on the bell on Comm II. The correct name for Comm II is Martin Handcraft Comm II. The Comm I were called "Searchligt" and I have also heard "Mars Attacking"! Also because of the engraving. The Martin ... is also called just Committee
 
I believe that the L&C Comm IIs were the "finished article". There were some transitional horns that had some characteristics and components of the Comm I so not a "true" Comm II and not with quite the polished sound. Some of these had no engraving or carried the "searchlight" as with the Comm I.
 
I believe that the L&C Comm IIs were the "finished article". There were some transitional horns that had some characteristics and components of the Comm I so not a "true" Comm II and not with quite the polished sound. Some of these had no engraving or carried the "searchlight" as with the Comm I.

My tenor from -38 is more like a Comm II than a Comm I. No fancy engraving. And no comm I keygards. But it has adjustable rh thumbrest. A killer sax. Oversized sterling silver ResoTechs gives my sax much power. I don't know who rebuilt/or did the renovation. I bought it from Bob Ackerman, NJ, USA. Maybe the guys in Iowa?

Same pictures. http://s297.photobucket.com/user/thomsax/media/hctumstod.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
 
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A Martin will also roar and scream, but will always have that sweetness - the Conn can be as sweet or sour as you want it to be.

The finest-sounding tenor I ever played was a Martin (can't remember which model, but the client who owned it played in Aswad back in the '80s). Practically played itself...though the action left a bit to be desired.

Having played a Martin Handcraft bari for many years I was tempted by a tenor that came up for grabs - spent an entire morning in the workshop switching between it and my old YTS23. There was barely anything in it - the Martin had a better lower end but the Yammy was crisper up the top.
Lovely horns, and very underrated. Back in the '70s you couldn't give 'em away.
 
Steve, which would you choose between a Buescher 400 TH&C, a Comm II L&C, and a Conn 6M/10M, Alto and Tenor, and why?

How would these compare with a Selmer MkVI for sound and ergonomics?

:confused:
 
Steve, which would you choose between a Buescher 400 TH&C, a Comm II L&C, and a Conn 6M/10M, Alto and Tenor, and why?

How would these compare with a Selmer MkVI for sound and ergonomics?

I would have the 6M alto as it has good ergos and I like the presentation of the tone.
I'd have the Martin tenor for the tone. It's ergos aren't that great, but I'd quickly get fed up with the 1OM going out of adjustment because of the fiddly locking screws. Sure, I could mod it, but it still wouldn't sound as nice as the Martin.

Compared to a MKVI? The Selmer would win on the ergos - that's for sure. Tonewise it's not so clear cut, but my preference for a more contemporary tone would make the Selmer more of a workhorse rather than a 'high days and holidays' horn.

Of course, that's just me - and in the grand scheme of things any of the horns listed can be considered as very good examples of the genre...and the only way to tell which is best for you is for you to play them...and never mind what anyone else says.

I would add, too, that I'd drop any of them in a flash for a Yamaha 62 alto and a TJ RAW tenor. And that's exactly what I've done.
 
I would have the 6M alto as it has good ergos and I like the presentation of the tone.
I'd have the Martin tenor for the tone. It's ergos aren't that great, but I'd quickly get fed up with the 1OM going out of adjustment because of the fiddly locking screws. Sure, I could mod it, but it still wouldn't sound as nice as the Martin.

Compared to a MKVI? The Selmer would win on the ergos - that's for sure. Tonewise it's not so clear cut, but my preference for a more contemporary tone would make the Selmer more of a workhorse rather than a 'high days and holidays' horn.

Of course, that's just me - and in the grand scheme of things any of the horns listed can be considered as very good examples of the genre...and the only way to tell which is best for you is for you to play them...and never mind what anyone else says.

I would add, too, that I'd drop any of them in a flash for a Yamaha 62 alto and a TJ RAW tenor. And that's exactly what I've done.

Is your 62 a MkI? I'm perfectly happy with my Buffet 400 Alto, but haven't played a 62 or MkVI. Have you come across a Buffet 400 yet?

Just in the process of restoring the Grassi 2000 Professional, as you may have seen (thanks to your Haynes manual for how to get the needle springs out - I used a mole grip and hammer - only one post slightly moved! It pulled back fine!!). I'm guessing you'd say any of the previously mentioned tenors would blow it away. But there are many reviews saying it matches a MkVI. Are these all from Italians?
 
Is your 62 a MkI? I'm perfectly happy with my Buffet 400 Alto, but haven't played a 62 or MkVI. Have you come across a Buffet 400 yet?

Just in the process of restoring the Grassi 2000 Professional, as you may have seen (thanks to your Haynes manual for how to get the needle springs out - I used a mole grip and hammer - only one post slightly moved! It pulled back fine!!). I'm guessing you'd say any of the previously mentioned tenors would blow it away. But there are many reviews saying it matches a MkVI. Are these all from Italians?

It's a MkI - though for no other reason than that was the current model when I bought it.

Did you read the bit about supporting the pillar when using some of the more advanced spring-removal techniques?
As you've found out, you can move a pillar with relative ease if you're not careful.

I've not been that blown away by any of the Grassi horns I've tried - but then it hasn't been many. I tend to think if a horn is that good it would at least pop above the radar rather more often that the Grassi does (i.e. the Couesnons and the Pierrets etc. often turn up on the forums).
But who knows? If a good example turns up on the workbench I might find myself having lots of nice things to say about it (which is not gonna be the case for the Vibratosax that's currently 'under the spotlight').
 
mk1 purple logo 62 owner myself, great instrument, would never sell or swap it for a mk6.
currently stripping it and taking it back to bare brass, neck , bell and bow done, a beauty
 
It's a MkI - though for no other reason than that was the current model when I bought it.

Did you read the bit about supporting the pillar when using some of the more advanced spring-removal techniques?
As you've found out, you can move a pillar with relative ease if you're not careful.

I've not been that blown away by any of the Grassi horns I've tried - but then it hasn't been many. I tend to think if a horn is that good it would at least pop above the radar rather more often that the Grassi does (i.e. the Couesnons and the Pierrets etc. often turn up on the forums).
But who knows? If a good example turns up on the workbench I might find myself having lots of nice things to say about it (which is not gonna be the case for the Vibratosax that's currently 'under the spotlight').
Yes, I read all the sections on spring removal the night before I wielded the hammer. Then for some reason I only associated moving pillars with using a punch! This tall pillar had a thick needle spring which wasn't budging, hence the pillar moved slightly as I was belting it!...

407362607.jpg


I used some more Plus Gas (thanks again for the tip to get this Steve), applied with a cocktail stick to both sides of the pillar, then rotated the spring about its axis with the mole grip to loosen it. One light tap with the hammer and it was out. I then used the G# key/rod, which fits between this post and the next, to measure how much it had moved and carefully applied pressure to the moved post with padded pliers until it was back in its original position with no play in the rod. Sorted! No dent to the body thankfully, but a lesson learned.

Here are the removed springs, kept for Geoff to replicate, as were all pads, felts, corks, etc.

407362608.jpg



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Yes, I read all the sections on spring removal the night before I wielded the hammer. Then for some reason I only associated moving pillars with using a punch! This tall pillar had a thick needle spring which wasn't budging, hence the pillar moved slightly as I was belting it!...

A lucky escape! I'll have a look at what I wrote and maybe add in a little bit about using anything else to knock a spring out.

I used some more Plus Gas (thanks again for the tip to get this Steve), applied with a cocktail stick to both sides of the pillar, then rotated the spring about its axis with the mole grip to loosen it. One light tap with the hammer and it was out. I then used the G# key/rod, which fits between this post and the next, to measure how much it had moved and carefully applied pressure to the moved post with padded pliers until it was back in its original position with no play in the rod. Sorted! No dent to the body thankfully, but a lesson learned.

I would avoid rotating the spring because the flattened end will act like a reamer if it turns. It's also more likely to snap off inside the pillar, which can add another level of arsing about when it comes to removing the spring.
Incidentally, the shock spray stuff works quite well for stuck springs.

I'm glad you didn't shift the pillar too much - it's in an awkward place, and if it gets driven into the body there's a chance it might pull one of the adjacent tone holes out of level.

I wouldn't bother retaining the springs/corks etc. - it's rare that anyone would use them for a reference.
 
To satisfy my own curiosity , is there any advantage to replacing springs that aren't broken?
 
A lucky escape! I'll have a look at what I wrote and maybe add in a little bit about using anything else to knock a spring out.

I would avoid rotating the spring because the flattened end will act like a reamer if it turns. It's also more likely to snap off inside the pillar, which can add another level of arsing about when it comes to removing the spring.
Incidentally, the shock spray stuff works quite well for stuck springs.

I'm glad you didn't shift the pillar too much - it's in an awkward place, and if it gets driven into the body there's a chance it might pull one of the adjacent tone holes out of level.

I wouldn't bother retaining the springs/corks etc. - it's rare that anyone would use them for a reference.
You covered it in S.1 of spring removal, and again in S.7 & S.8. Just slipped my mind in the heat of the moment!

I did think about the "reaming" effect and rotated only about 5-10 degrees and back again, so more of a "jiggle" to avoid any damage to the spring hole rear.

By the way, I tried pliers first per S.2 but found the jaws would just slide down the spring toward the pillar and in danger of hitting it. That's because the power of the hammer striking the pliers exceeds my strength gripping the pliers tight. That's when I used the mole grips which alleviated that problem. So long as the spring fits along one of the small grooves in the very end of the mole grips there's little chance on snapping it when applying the locking pressure. I guess this has the knock-on effect of mutiplying the force transferred to the pillar, as I found out, so I'd recommend applying some unlocking fluid first then using a sharp but gentle tap.

Anyway.... how about the Buffet 400? Tried one yet?

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To satisfy my own curiosity , is there any advantage to replacing springs that aren't broken?

Yes. Look at mine - all rusty and horrible!

They had to come out anyway, so the polisher doesn't skewer himself!

:shocked:
 
You covered it in S.1 of spring removal, and again in S.7 & S.8. Just slipped my mind in the heat of the moment!

Cheers - saves me looking! I tend to think of how people might attempt the job without the 'proper' tools and then try to provide appropriate guidance.

I did think about the "reaming" effect and rotated only about 5-10 degrees and back again, so more of a "jiggle" to avoid any damage to the spring hole rear.

Sounds reasonable - nothing wrong with a bit of jiggling every now and then.

By the way, I tried pliers first per S.2 but found the jaws would just slide down the spring toward the pillar and in danger of hitting it. That's because the power of the hammer striking the pliers exceeds my strength gripping the pliers tight. That's when I used the mole grips which alleviated that problem. So long as the spring fits along one of the small grooves in the very end of the mole grips there's little chance on snapping it when applying the locking pressure. I guess this has the knock-on effect of mutiplying the force transferred to the pillar, as I found out, so I'd recommend applying some unlocking fluid first then using a sharp but gentle tap.

Yep, that's a kind of built-in safety feature...which, as you found out, the molegrips got around. Essentially though, any impact on a tool attached to a pillar - even via a spring - is exactly the same as hitting the pillar with a hammer.

Anyway.... how about the Buffet 400? Tried one yet?

I think I did, in Frankfurt - but it can't have been that memorable as I don't have any notes written down about it.
I'll have to reserve judgement until I can get my hands on one.
Shouldn't be long...they seem to be quite popular.
 
To satisfy my own curiosity , is there any advantage to replacing springs that aren't broken?

I would say there's no advantage in replacing springs that are still doing their job, and appear to be able to do so for the foreseeable future. So, in reasonable condition (a little surface rust isn't anything much to worry about, and can be dealt with) and still nice and snappy.
Piecemeal replacement of springs can lead to the hole in the pillar becoming enlarged...and thus increasing the size of spring required - which will have a detrimental effect on the action.
It's also the case that old springs have proven their worth...whereas a new spring might be quite brittle. The quality of springs these days is not what it used to be.
 
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